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Post by AQUA CAT! on Apr 19, 2021 21:30:31 GMT 1
It seems that some people are up in arms (no pun intended) about the fact that the Wakandans build a fail-safe into Bucky's arm. In the latest episode, Ayo rapidly disarms (pun intended) Bucky during a fight with a few skillfully-placed hand gestures. Does anyone see this as a betrayal on the part of the Wakandan's? I think it would have been more than reasonable for Shuri and the team to devise a failsafe for the arm should their deprogramming have failed. At the same time, I do think Ayo owes Bucky an apology or something like it. She did perform the action in mixed company, which showcases the vulnerability. She owed him some professional courtesy in that regard. I thought it was clever. Activating the fail safe comes with great risk. Especially now that he knows it's there. Second attempts are a premium.
It's like if the button to stop an alligator were located at the back of its throat. You could lose your own arm trying to turn it off.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 20, 2021 1:27:42 GMT 1
It seems that some people are up in arms (no pun intended) about the fact that the Wakandans build a fail-safe into Bucky's arm. In the latest episode, Ayo rapidly disarms (pun intended) Bucky during a fight with a few skillfully-placed hand gestures. Does anyone see this as a betrayal on the part of the Wakandan's? I think it would have been more than reasonable for Shuri and the team to devise a failsafe for the arm should their deprogramming have failed. At the same time, I do think Ayo owes Bucky an apology or something like it. She did perform the action in mixed company, which showcases the vulnerability. She owed him some professional courtesy in that regard. I thought it was clever. Activating the fail safe comes with great risk. Especially now that he knows it's there. Second attempts are a premium.
It's like if the button to stop an alligator were located at the back of its throat. You could lose your own arm trying to turn it off.
It was very clever, and both James and Ayo were acting true to their characters. I felt as caught off guard as Bucky did when his arm fell off - great moment.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Apr 20, 2021 19:05:51 GMT 1
I thought it was clever. Activating the fail safe comes with great risk. Especially now that he knows it's there. Second attempts are a premium.
It's like if the button to stop an alligator were located at the back of its throat. You could lose your own arm trying to turn it off.
It was very clever, and both James and Ayo were acting true to their characters. I felt as caught off guard as Bucky did when his arm fell off - great moment. As was I, caught off guard. Imagine how he feels lol.
I understand what you were saying though. On the one hand I wouldn't apologize, but then I think if I were Bucky I'd be pretty mad something was done to me and I wasn't told.
Unrelated but I'll comment here too that I saw in this thread some people thought Julia Louis-Dreyfus' cameo was underwhelming. That's a shame. I think it's great Elaine from Seinfeld is whooping it up in superhero shows. A lot of people are getting a piece of superhero action. It's fun.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 21, 2021 15:39:10 GMT 1
It was very clever, and both James and Ayo were acting true to their characters. I felt as caught off guard as Bucky did when his arm fell off - great moment. As was I, caught off guard. Imagine how he feels lol. I understand what you were saying though. On the one hand I wouldn't apologize, but then I think if I were Bucky I'd be pretty mad something was done to me and I wasn't told. Unrelated but I'll comment here too that I saw in this thread some people thought Julia Louis-Dreyfus' cameo was underwhelming. That's a shame. I think it's great Elaine from Seinfeld is whooping it up in superhero shows. A lot of people are getting a piece of superhero action. It's fun.
Bucky's situation with his arm and Ayo is so weird because it doubles down on the idea that he isn't much more than a tool. Hydra was able to turn him on and off via brainwashing, and now it's fairly straightforward to disarm him (if you know how) literally. It just feels like he can't catch a break, and it curtails his agency somewhat. The situation does bring to light the idea that Bucky is a disabled Vet. Because he utilizes a sophisticated prosthesis doesn't change the fact that he is a one-armed man. Most amputees don't wear their prosthetic(s) all the time. I was surprised to see that he wears his to bed. I mean, dude, what if you had a nightmare? He could injure himself or the surrounding environment badly. To be perfectly honest, when I first saw Dreyfus as Val in the episode, I was somewhat ambivalent. I started thinking of her in future scenarios interacting with some of the other characters in the MCU, and then I came around in a big way. She's an excellent get for the MCU. Unfortunately, a lot of people aren't familiar with her work outside of Seinfeld. She's had a few compelling dramatic performances since then.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Apr 21, 2021 20:34:50 GMT 1
As was I, caught off guard. Imagine how he feels lol. I understand what you were saying though. On the one hand I wouldn't apologize, but then I think if I were Bucky I'd be pretty mad something was done to me and I wasn't told. Unrelated but I'll comment here too that I saw in this thread some people thought Julia Louis-Dreyfus' cameo was underwhelming. That's a shame. I think it's great Elaine from Seinfeld is whooping it up in superhero shows. A lot of people are getting a piece of superhero action. It's fun.
Bucky's situation with his arm and Ayo is so weird because it doubles down on the idea that he isn't much more than a tool. Hydra was able to turn him on and off via brainwashing, and now it's fairly straightforward to disarm him (if you know how) literally. It just feels like he can't catch a break, and it curtails his agency somewhat. The situation does bring to light the idea that Bucky is a disabled Vet. Because he utilizes a sophisticated prosthesis doesn't change the fact that he is a one-armed man. Most amputees don't wear their prosthetic(s) all the time. I was surprised to see that he wears his to bed. I mean, dude, what if you had a nightmare? He could injure himself or the surrounding environment badly. To be perfectly honest, when I first saw Dreyfus as Val in the episode, I was somewhat ambivalent. I started thinking of her in future scenarios interacting with some of the other characters in the MCU, and then I came around in a big way. She's an excellent get for the MCU. Unfortunately, a lot of people aren't familiar with her work outside of Seinfeld. She's had a few compelling dramatic performances since then. I guess he's tough. It seems insane to me to wear it to sleep but I can see why. It's to stay feeling whole. He also didn't know it could be unlocked, but even then, it seems to me like he'd want to keep it once he knows. Taking it off is the most instant reminder that he's built like an object to be edited.
Deactivating his arm though is like deactivating a trap in the Saw movies. Now that Bucky knows it's there, I doubt even Ayo will be so lucky. It is a double-edged sword because it was a betrayal of trust, but it presents him with the choice. Now he can decide if his detachable arm makes him less human or wanting to keep it makes him more. It's harsh but it's a relevant ultimatum. I'm just glad it can be reattached. If it couldn't, then I'd be pissed. Pissed if I were Bucky I mean.
I missed that Dreyfus' name is Val (or I forgot). I don't recall her being identified. Does this mean she's the Power Broker?
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 21, 2021 22:35:47 GMT 1
Bucky's situation with his arm and Ayo is so weird because it doubles down on the idea that he isn't much more than a tool. Hydra was able to turn him on and off via brainwashing, and now it's fairly straightforward to disarm him (if you know how) literally. It just feels like he can't catch a break, and it curtails his agency somewhat. The situation does bring to light the idea that Bucky is a disabled Vet. Because he utilizes a sophisticated prosthesis doesn't change the fact that he is a one-armed man. Most amputees don't wear their prosthetic(s) all the time. I was surprised to see that he wears his to bed. I mean, dude, what if you had a nightmare? He could injure himself or the surrounding environment badly. To be perfectly honest, when I first saw Dreyfus as Val in the episode, I was somewhat ambivalent. I started thinking of her in future scenarios interacting with some of the other characters in the MCU, and then I came around in a big way. She's an excellent get for the MCU. Unfortunately, a lot of people aren't familiar with her work outside of Seinfeld. She's had a few compelling dramatic performances since then. I guess he's tough. It seems insane to me to wear it to sleep but I can see why. It's to stay feeling whole. He also didn't know it could be unlocked, but even then, it seems to me like he'd want to keep it once he knows. Taking it off is the most instant reminder that he's built like an object to be edited.
Deactivating his arm though is like deactivating a trap in the Saw movies. Now that Bucky knows it's there, I doubt even Ayo will be so lucky. It is a double-edged sword because it was a betrayal of trust, but it presents him with the choice. Now he can decide if his detachable arm makes him less human or wanting to keep it makes him more. It's harsh but it's a relevant ultimatum. I'm just glad it can be reattached. If it couldn't, then I'd be pissed. Pissed if I were Bucky I mean.
I missed that Dreyfus' name is Val (or I forgot). I don't recall her being identified. Does this mean she's the Power Broker?
At this point, a better question would be who is NOT the power broker. Julia Louis-Dreyfus plays the comic book character La Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine aka Madame Hydra. She a player in the espionage side of the Marvel Universe who has been affiliated with SHEILD, Leviathan and Hydra.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 21, 2021 23:52:48 GMT 1
I guess he's tough. It seems insane to me to wear it to sleep but I can see why. It's to stay feeling whole. He also didn't know it could be unlocked, but even then, it seems to me like he'd want to keep it once he knows. Taking it off is the most instant reminder that he's built like an object to be edited.
Deactivating his arm though is like deactivating a trap in the Saw movies. Now that Bucky knows it's there, I doubt even Ayo will be so lucky. It is a double-edged sword because it was a betrayal of trust, but it presents him with the choice. Now he can decide if his detachable arm makes him less human or wanting to keep it makes him more. It's harsh but it's a relevant ultimatum. I'm just glad it can be reattached. If it couldn't, then I'd be pissed. Pissed if I were Bucky I mean.
I missed that Dreyfus' name is Val (or I forgot). I don't recall her being identified. Does this mean she's the Power Broker?
At this point, a better question would be who is NOT the power broker. Julia Louis-Dreyfus plays the comic book character La Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine aka Madame Hydra. She a player in the espionage side of the Marvel Universe who has been affiliated with SHEILD, Leviathan and Hydra. are we thinking that rules her out?
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 22, 2021 16:58:45 GMT 1
At this point, a better question would be who is NOT the power broker. Julia Louis-Dreyfus plays the comic book character La Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine aka Madame Hydra. She a player in the espionage side of the Marvel Universe who has been affiliated with SHEILD, Leviathan and Hydra. are we thinking that rules her out? We can't rule anyone out entirely; however, it doesn't seem very likely that Valentina is the Power Broker. We're at episode five in the series. At this point, I keep asking myself, why would they continue to obfuscate the identity of the Power Broker. The only reasoning that makes sense to me is that the identity of the Power Broker has more significant implications for the future of the MCU. I think the Power Broker is someone we haven't seen yet (in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier). Sharon's last appearance feels like an obvious misdirect, and Valentina is a new character. It would be disingenuous to introduce her, give her a backstory and some flimsy motivation for her actions, all in the last two episodes. That would be like introducing Agatha in the finale of WandaVision. I don't think the question of WHO is all that relevant anymore regarding the Power Broker. The more important questions are WHY and WHAT. The Power Broker is probably someone we've seen before in the MCU (but not in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier). I suspect General Ross. He may have recruited Sharon after she was discarded by SHEILD and sent her undercover in Madripoor. He's the first individual of the modern era in the MCU to have any connection with the Weapon+ program (i.e., The Incredible Hulk). He couldn't control the Avengers (via the accords), so maybe he's trying to build his own (Dark) Avengers or Thunderbolts to replace them. Cornering the serum market would help to facilitate that goal.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 22, 2021 17:16:34 GMT 1
The idea of Ross is interesting because it makes him this long running subplot through the entire MCU
The other option I’m starting to strongly consider is the Ten Rings. Mandarin has been in the shadows from the start so that fits both his character and your suspicion that it’s something we’re familiar with. It also leads nicely into Shang Chi which appears to have a Madripoor fighting ring. How Sharon fits into that one though I won’t even guess.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 22, 2021 19:45:50 GMT 1
The idea of Ross is interesting because it makes him this long running subplot through the entire MCU The other option I’m starting to strongly consider is the Ten Rings. Mandarin has been in the shadows from the start so that fits both his character and your suspicion that it’s something we’re familiar with. It also leads nicely into Shang Chi which appears to have a Madripoor fighting ring. How Sharon fits into that one though I won’t even guess. Ross is a natural fit for this corner of the MCU. We know he's coming back one way or the other via Black Widow. I wouldn't necessarily think of the Mandarin being this deeply involved in a "western" scenario. I imagine him as a major eastern-based crime boss, but his scope could be wider. No one has entertained the idea that we may not find out who the Power Broker is at all.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 22, 2021 23:53:02 GMT 1
TONIGHT!!
One of the biggest events to ever happen in the MCU goes down. The promise of long running character development, like only the MCU can provide, will be delivered, as a mantle (perhaps THE mantle) is officially passed. I’m getting a little giddy TBH
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Post by Grandmaster on Apr 23, 2021 7:51:58 GMT 1
Who else is gonna watch now?
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Post by Grandmaster on Apr 23, 2021 8:49:55 GMT 1
And thats how you make the single best super hero tv show ever. They did it.
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Post by Grandmaster on Apr 23, 2021 8:51:09 GMT 1
Cap's speech is the single best monologue in the MCU.
Absolutely loved the last episode. They raised the bar again. I laughed, I cried, I had chills and they set up so much good stuff.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 23, 2021 11:10:57 GMT 1
Sam looked great, acted great, and establishing a wing for a Isiah is the moment that made me smile. All that needs said right up front because it’s the main point of the show.
My biggest thought though is, I’m not sure in the end if there’s anybody I completely agree with. Maybe Bucky, because he gave that guy closure, and overall did what he had to do, even driving most of the show. Sharon is kind of a bitch now obviously. And I can’t say I completely agree with Sam’s speech. I don’t disagree with it, but I wasn’t sure what decision it led to by the GRC and what the ramifications of that were.
My thing is with policy decisions I try and think through what you have to give up to get something else. So it’s nice to say “we have to do better”, but I actually agree more with the council in this situation. These aren’t easy decisions. Not taking care of refugees is potentially, and I say potentially (Just to be crystal clear, I am not saying that we shouldn’t take care of refugees) but a decision to make a limit to that effort is POTENTIALLY similar to the limit you place on yourself for charity. How much can you afford to give away? Why don’t you let homeless people live in your home? If Sam showed up and said “you can do better” would you agree with him? IDK. And maybe we can do better, but it’s not this easy choice that I instantly agree with Sam on. It’s extremely complicated which is why I agree more with the GRC. They were at least talking about the amount of resources in resettlement camps, and where people whose homes were no longer their own should go. Those are fair considerations. I’m not sure what Sam’s plan is other than “do better”.
But this isn’t a fault of the show. It’s actually a good thing because this is how people discuss politics in the real world. Often people want things, but don’t really consider the practicality of doing it. It often to me feels like people ignore that resources are limited and doing one thing costs something else. As long as you’ve weighed that cost, then fine. But politics is rarely discussed in terms of the cost of Y so that you can make a decision. It’s often just sold as we want X
My biggest geek out moment was USAgent. Love this guy, warts and all, because he’s an asshole and I like it. Just do whatever you want John, almost Punisher style, unapologetically, cross a few moral lines, let’s do it!
Alright last thing. And I’m very conflicted myself on how I view this btw, and hear me out because it’s complicated. I get race and equality is a huge inspiration for a lot of people. A person for me however, is their ideas and their personality. I already live as though race has no bearing on anything more than something like, yeah I am attracted to brunettes more than blondes. Sorry ladies ;-). But my point here is when you don’t care about race, which I think is the goal; When you like Sam as cap because he’s a good man and extremely talented with his skill set, etc, then it’s a different experience to be told “make sure you think of him as black”. I want to be in a world where we genuinely don’t give a shit about being any race. That’s the goal isn’t it? Isnt that the message and what we want to accomplish? And again, I completely get why racial discussions are meaningful to a lot of people which is why I’m conflicted here. I know it’s a key moment for many and probably very emotional in an important way. It’s just that I think of Sam as a human being.
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Apr 23, 2021 15:17:41 GMT 1
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 23, 2021 17:17:22 GMT 1
As I’m thinking about this more, I love Sam’s acceptance and confidence in what he’s doing. He has a deep humility that simultaneously makes him worthy but also reluctant to take this mantle. But he sees it as a duty to his country and that is what drives him to accept this mantle. That’s fantastic. It’s that duty that compels him to speak up on what he believes is right and to lead with that message. It’s what Steve did and now Sam knows it’s what he has to do.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 23, 2021 17:25:49 GMT 1
I've never liked Sam's costume from the comic books. I don't hate it so as much as I think it's a little overdone. It was recreated almost too faithfully for the finale. I do wish its capabilities were upgraded more as well. The redesign feels like it's mainly cosmetic - I expect more out of Wakanda.
I think Sam's speech was meant to motivate and unify, even if it wasn't end-to-end logical. I have to watch it again, but I believe his central thesis comes down to representation. Everyone realizes that the GRC has many complex logistical considerations to take into account with the repatriation effort. Sam and I both agree that they need to give the people they affect a voice in the process. You can't just unilaterally decide for people and expect them to be grateful when you're done. That never works with human beings.
Karli's death, although necessary, really felt like a waste. If she could have been made to see reason, she could have helped the people she claimed to represent more constructively. And guys, we kind of need a female supersoldier.
Is Batroc dead? I will be pissed if he is.
I think Sharon, as the Power Broker, could have been handled better. I don't mind that she is the Power Broker, but when you reflect on the series as a whole, I don't think they show us an organic transition from Agent 13 to Power Broker. The last time we saw her, she was a hero who stuck her neck out to help Captain America when he was in a tight spot, then suddenly she's making bizarre death threats to terrorists over text. We needed to see what happened in between - the transition is way too abrupt.
Per the last episode of the Review of Champions, I still think Sharon could be a Skrull. The other side of the coin is that the Carter legacy is now in shambles, which feels like an odd choice. How happy will I be to see her in suspended animation in some Skrull mega-complex alongside the others who have been replaced?
This is why I'm not as super psyched for Secret Invasion as a lot of other fans. The premise provides an almost multiverse-level "out" for bad or weak character development. "Oh, you don't like the way Character X was acting during that movie or series, well guess what..."
I'm glad John is still in the rotation --- and as U.S. Agent no less. Technically, he should be serving time for his crimes. He should at least be paroled.
The action in this episode is by far my favorite of the series. I wish they would have started with the character development pieces and ended strong with the action set pieces in New York.
Bucky has the most satisfying arc of the series for me. Sam's is similarly gratifying, but sometimes it felt like a foregone conclusion.
Aside from a couple of generic directing choices, the episode was great.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 23, 2021 17:29:48 GMT 1
And the series is going to need a name change for Season 2.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 23, 2021 17:42:34 GMT 1
Very glad that Bradley got his due.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 23, 2021 18:23:13 GMT 1
Very glad that Bradley got his due. That was strong. A wing in the Smithsonian or whoever that museum is. Truly powerful and badass ending for him. I love how they’ve built in this longer history of Captain America now. I need a show about young Isiah now.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 23, 2021 22:51:56 GMT 1
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 23, 2021 22:56:43 GMT 1
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 24, 2021 0:30:12 GMT 1
This makes me so happy. I saw that and it put a smile on my face instantly. Sam looks incredible. I love his skill set. His arc to get here has been fantastic. It’s just an amazing and relevant passing of a mantle like we’ve never seen. It’s been truly earned.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 24, 2021 0:43:16 GMT 1
This makes me so happy. I saw that and it put a smile on my face instantly. Sam looks incredible. I’ve his skill set. His arc to get here has been fantastic. It’s just an amazing and relevant passing of a mantle like we’ve never seen. It’s been truly earned. I would personally like a suit upgrade for the movie, but yes, a Sam Wilson: Captain America film could easily earn the top slot in that sub-franchise.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Apr 24, 2021 19:14:41 GMT 1
Pretty good! I'm pleased Sharon is the power broker. For a while it seemed so clear she would be that it felt like a misdirect. I even had a moment of doubt when Madame Val showed up, but I'm pleased.
Karli and the gang. Good one-off one-time villain. It's too bad she's dead but I respect the approach that sometimes less is more.
I appreciate John is...better. Still iffy, but not not US Agent material. So he put the cart before the horse thinking he could be Captain America. Their world's probably filled with people chomping at the bit to be Captain America.
Good outgoing speech from the new and improved Captain America, Mr. Sam Wilson. It was important to nail it. The resettlement plan has its own logic too, but the attitude of the politicians shows the more things change, the more some things stay the same. Enter Sam Wilson who shows on live TV that half the battle for change is wanting it enough. He asked the right questions about considering what drives people like Karli to the brink, and why many people were willing to help her.
Lovely little museum setup devoted to Isaiah Bradley. Very validating.
That's about it. It's good.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 26, 2021 18:47:00 GMT 1
You can't even say that this was taken out of context. Her mastery of the absurd borders on some level of divinity.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 26, 2021 19:14:18 GMT 1
You can't even say that this was taken out of context. Her mastery of the absurd borders on some level of divinity. can I ask what she said. I’m in a room I can’t play the audio in right now
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Post by Lord Death Man on Apr 26, 2021 19:28:10 GMT 1
You can't even say that this was taken out of context. Her mastery of the absurd borders on some level of divinity. can I ask what she said. I’m in a room I can’t play the audio in right now She compared the Black Experience in America c. 2021... to the plight of... the oppressed brunets of the 1960s. Apparently, Grace's mother, a member of the "oppressed" class, was acutely aware that 'blonde's had more fun' due to pervasive television advertising of the era. So, her mother's feelings of inadequacy and 'otherness' are comparable to trying to serve your country even though a large portion of the people you represent hate you based on your race alone. It's was an astonishingly stupid comparison.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 26, 2021 19:31:29 GMT 1
You can't even say that this was taken out of context. Her mastery of the absurd borders on some level of divinity. HOLY SHIT, did she just say brunettes are some kind of victimized group? WTF Let’s say that statistically blondes are determined to be more sexually attractive on average. I mean. Sorry? So are people with fit physiques. There’s this thing called life where nothing is ever going to be equal or fair in the sense that everybody is the same. That doesn’t make your brunette mom a victim you bleach blonde Casper the ghost looking b,,,
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