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Post by Grandmaster on Oct 9, 2022 11:48:21 GMT 1
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Oct 9, 2022 19:47:50 GMT 1
‘The Rings of Power’ Writers React to 5 Fan Criticisms of Their Show From short-haired elves to dwarf-wife beards to Galadriel's portrayal, Amazon's 'The Lord of the Rings' series showrunners react to some common Tolkien fandom canon complaints.
James Hibberd OCTOBER 7, 2022 7:05AM PDT
J.R.R. Tolkien fans love how the author’s fantasy world is so vast, yet also so convincingly detailed and specific. So it’s no surprise that Amazon’s The Rings of Power has sparked some canonical gripes when striving to adapt Tolkien’s Second Age for modern global TV viewers. Showrunners J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay have seen the chatter and were down to respond to some of the most oft-repeated online comments (then, amazingly, McKay even asked, “What are you not buying about the show?”). As noted in The Hollywood Reporter‘s deep-dive Rings of Power cover story this week, the writers and producers privately debated many of the same topics fans have been discussing since the show’s Sept. 2 debut. So they were hyper-prepared to tackle the following five complaints.
“Dwarf wives in The Rings of Power don’t have beards” J.D. Payne: They actually do, it’s not accurate. We looked at various versions of what facial hair on dwarf women might look like. There are beard hairs applied lovingly one at a time [onto Disa actress Sophia Nomvete] and there are these sort of mutton chops on the side.
Patrick McKay: I would go further to say that Tolkien himself — if you study his entire body of work — has answered this particular question both ways. There’s a very strong argument to be made that dwarf women should have beards, and a very strong argument to be made that they don’t. We’re happy with where we landed.
“Elves don’t have shaved heads or short hair” Payne: If Tolkien ever wrote a comprehensive style guide to hairstyles in Middle-earth over its thousands of years of history, I would love to see it.
McKay: Part of this show is to go deeper and broader into each of these races and cultures. To say that any culture as rich and with as long of a history as the elves would all have the same hair for 9,000 years … that doesn’t seem to correspond and harmonize with the breadth of the imagination that Tolkien left us.
“Galadriel acts too masculine and she never went to Númenor” Payne: I would love to see in Tolkien where it says Galadriel never went to Númenor — that doesn’t exist. Second, one of her nicknames is “Nerwen,” which means “man-maiden.” And third, she does not act masculine!
McKay: Also, the name “Galadriel” is loosely translated in Elvish as a maiden with a crown of golden hair. The reason she had a crown of golden hair is because when she would fight and do all sorts of sparring with other elves … she would braid her hair and put it up on top of her head [to stay out of the way]. So in the etymology is the idea that Galadriel is a warrior.
“The costumes look too new” McKay: I certainly don’t agree with that note. I think we are always talking about a lived-in world, and we’re always talking about adding breakdown [to give costumes a more worn-in look]. But also: That’s not a bad shirt you got on. Is it new?
McKay: Guess what? Sometimes clothes are new.
“The show’s pacing has been too slow” Payne: I hope that people can key in for the journey. A lot of blockbusters have a breakneck pace where you’re wheeled from one set piece to the next until it all collapses under its own weight. Tolkien will take his time and let you sink into characters, to a journey, and journeys can be hard in Tolkien. I hope people will have the patience to settle in for a Tolkien epic.
That said, in THR’s The Rings of Power cover story, the duo conceded that some scenes in season one weren’t as urgent as they could have been. “There are things that didn’t work as well in season one that might have worked in a smaller show,” McKay said. “It has to be about good and evil and the fate of the world, or it doesn’t have that epic feeling you want when you’re in Tolkien.”
The first-time showrunners bested dozens of possible rivals to get the job creating the Prime Video series, with Amazon executives citing Payne and McKay’s passion for — and depth-of-knowledge of — Tolkien’s world. The two also acknowledge they learned a lot when making the massively complicated first season and that the show’s episodes generally improve as the season unfolds. They expect to level-up the episodes going into season two to be “bigger and better” on “every level … by an order of magnitude.”
The duo also teased (spoiler free) next week’s eighth and final episode of their show’s debut season.
“When the world breaks — quite literally — how do you start to pick up the pieces?” McKay asked. “Quite often in serialized television, the last episode of the first season is table-setting for the second season. We don’t feel that way. Our last episode is the ultimate culmination of every single fuse we’ve we’ve lit in the first seven episodes. Hopefully, people are really satisfied with the big booms that happen — though they might be emotional booms rather than volcanic ones.”
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2022 9:27:09 GMT 1
Wow. Seriously didnt expect that much to be revealed. Only the first season too. They must have a lot planned for the next one. Im excited
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Post by Merv on Oct 14, 2022 10:37:50 GMT 1
Yea tons of answers to plenty of questions. Very solid finale.
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Post by Grandmaster on Oct 14, 2022 20:30:32 GMT 1
Rings of Power is definitely a good show. Im sad we have to wait so long for the next season.
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Post by Grandmaster on Oct 14, 2022 20:43:44 GMT 1
Yea tons of answers to plenty of questions. Very solid finale. That one quote confirmed it right?
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Post by Merv on Oct 14, 2022 20:54:58 GMT 1
Yea tons of answers to plenty of questions. Very solid finale. That one quote confirmed it right? For me, yes. There’s actually two lines of dialog in the finale that “confirm” it.
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Post by Grandmaster on Oct 14, 2022 21:13:37 GMT 1
That one quote confirmed it right? For me, yes. There’s actually two lines of dialog in the finale that “confirm” it. The Tolkien purists are having a freaking meltdown over it. Hilarious.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2022 23:48:27 GMT 1
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 15, 2022 0:00:00 GMT 1
{Spoiler} If you are going by the lore - absolutely not. This wizard appears thousands of years before Gandolph arrives in the timeline. He has to be one of the five other wizards sent by Manwë to help the free people of middle Earth prosecute their war against Sauron.
Interestingly enough, all but one of the five wizards sent were turned away from their assigned tasks. This guy could be Saruman or one of the other unnamed wizards.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2022 0:16:16 GMT 1
So he's {Spoiler}Gandalf right? {Spoiler}If you are going by the lore - absolutely not. This wizard appears thousands of years before Gandolph arrives in the timeline. He has to be one of the five other wizards sent by Manwë to help the free people of middle Earth prosecute their war against Sauron.
Interestingly enough, all but one of the five wizards sent were turned away from their assigned tasks. This guy could be Saruman or one of the other unnamed wizards. Oh ok I was under the impression {Spoiler}that he was around but went by another name. Also the fire powers and the insects (also in the finale)
I guess he could still be a blue wizard too?
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Post by Merv on Oct 15, 2022 0:38:18 GMT 1
{Spoiler} If you are going by the lore - absolutely not. This wizard appears thousands of years before Gandolph arrives in the timeline. He has to be one of the five other wizards sent by Manwë to help the free people of middle Earth prosecute their war against Sauron.
Interestingly enough, all but one of the five wizards sent were turned away from their assigned tasks. This guy could be Saruman or one of the other unnamed wizards. I’d say the show is definitely dropping Gandalf hints. It could be a misdirect and it’s actually some other wizard, but I definitely think the show right now is leading us to believe this is Gandalf without outright stating it. Since they were pretty on the nose with Halbrand (I thought he was a red herring) I’m inclined to believe they aren’t misleading us with the Stranger and that he’s actually Gandalf. What effect that has on the actual story to be told I have no idea.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 15, 2022 0:54:05 GMT 1
{Spoiler} If you are going by the lore - absolutely not. This wizard appears thousands of years before Gandolph arrives in the timeline. He has to be one of the five other wizards sent by Manwë to help the free people of middle Earth prosecute their war against Sauron.
Interestingly enough, all but one of the five wizards sent were turned away from their assigned tasks. This guy could be Saruman or one of the other unnamed wizards. I’d say the show is definitely dropping Gandalf hints. It could be a misdirect and it’s actually some other wizard, but I definitely think the show right now is leading us to believe this is Gandalf without outright stating it. Since they were pretty on the nose with Halbrand (I thought he was a red herring) I’m inclined to believe they aren’t misleading us with the Stranger and that he’s actually Gandalf. What effect that has on the actual story to be told I have no idea. If that is the case, purists will do what they do best - cry foul.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 15, 2022 0:57:10 GMT 1
{Spoiler}If you are going by the lore - absolutely not. This wizard appears thousands of years before Gandolph arrives in the timeline. He has to be one of the five other wizards sent by Manwë to help the free people of middle Earth prosecute their war against Sauron.
Interestingly enough, all but one of the five wizards sent were turned away from their assigned tasks. This guy could be Saruman or one of the other unnamed wizards. Oh ok I was under the impression {Spoiler}that he was around but went by another name. Also the fire powers and the insects (also in the finale)
I guess he could still be a blue wizard too? {Spoiler}The two blue Wizards and Radagast supposedly went missing sometime in the second age.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2022 0:58:37 GMT 1
{Spoiler} If you are going by the lore - absolutely not. This wizard appears thousands of years before Gandolph arrives in the timeline. He has to be one of the five other wizards sent by Manwë to help the free people of middle Earth prosecute their war against Sauron.
Interestingly enough, all but one of the five wizards sent were turned away from their assigned tasks. This guy could be Saruman or one of the other unnamed wizards. I’d say the show is definitely dropping Gandalf hints. It could be a misdirect and it’s actually some other wizard, but I definitely think the show right now is leading us to believe this is Gandalf without outright stating it. Since they were pretty on the nose with Halbrand (I thought he was a red herring) I’m inclined to believe they aren’t misleading us with the Stranger and that he’s actually Gandalf. What effect that has on the actual story to be told I have no idea. Also is Sauron meant to have that name yet? Im obviously not a Lord of the Rings expert but have there been any other established time differences? This is based on the appendices after all and from what I understand there are a few gaps
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Post by Grandmaster on Oct 15, 2022 5:47:26 GMT 1
I’d say the show is definitely dropping Gandalf hints. It could be a misdirect and it’s actually some other wizard, but I definitely think the show right now is leading us to believe this is Gandalf without outright stating it. Since they were pretty on the nose with Halbrand (I thought he was a red herring) I’m inclined to believe they aren’t misleading us with the Stranger and that he’s actually Gandalf. What effect that has on the actual story to be told I have no idea. Also is Sauron meant to have that name yet? Im obviously not a Lord of the Rings expert but have there been any other established time differences? This is based on the appendices after all and from what I understand there are a few gaps Like Merv said on the show, they have condensed the time line so they wouldnt have to recast the humans all of the time. It just makes sense and a better show for it. Comparing it to HotD... the one big issue I have with this show are the timejumps and recasts. Its almost like Amazon understood that and made the right decision. Again. And it annoys the crap out of me because I want to hate on Amazon but I cant fault them on this show.
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Post by Merv on Oct 15, 2022 7:53:34 GMT 1
Also is Sauron meant to have that name yet? Im obviously not a Lord of the Rings expert but have there been any other established time differences? This is based on the appendices after all and from what I understand there are a few gaps Like Merv said on the show, they have condensed the time line so they wouldnt have to recast the humans all of the time. It just makes sense and a better show for it. Comparing it to HotD... the one big issue I have with this show are the timejumps and recasts. Its almost like Amazon understood that and made the right decision. Again. And it annoys the crap out of me because I want to hate on Amazon but I cant fault them on this show. Watch the first season of Wheel of Time if you want to be annoyed with Amazon. Lol
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 16, 2022 4:00:54 GMT 1
But, consider this, Morfydd Clark would have been the ideal Captain Marvel.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 10:12:40 GMT 1
But, consider this, Morfydd Clark would have been the ideal Captain Marvel. I dont mind that choice. What about Sue Storm? And as the days go by it's looking less and less likely it will be the Krasinski pair
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 10:13:39 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 10:28:04 GMT 1
Found a couple of interesting theories in the comments again.
but then someone corrected that by saying Aule did not create Saruman?
That the boy could be the true king of the Southlands. Someone saying there is always an heir and that it just travels sideways then
What about Tom Bombadil? Is it possible he could be the stranger?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 10:42:33 GMT 1
The Rings of Power Beats House of the Dragon Again in Streaming Rankings link
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 16, 2022 18:20:47 GMT 1
But, consider this, Morfydd Clark would have been the ideal Captain Marvel. I dont mind that choice. What about Sue Storm? And as the days go by it's looking less and less likely it will be the Krasinski pair I don't think she could capture the combination of both strength and vulnerability that Sue Storm is sort of famous for… Clark is definitely adept at the female soldier archetype.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2022 7:19:37 GMT 1
I dont mind that choice. What about Sue Storm? And as the days go by it's looking less and less likely it will be the Krasinski pair I don't think she could capture the combination of both strength and vulnerability that Sue Storm is sort of famous for… Clark is definitely adept at the female soldier archetype. Well, it's called acting
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 17, 2022 15:25:11 GMT 1
I don't think she could capture the combination of both strength and vulnerability that Sue Storm is sort of famous for… Clark is definitely adept at the female soldier archetype. Well, it's called acting She's already a lead in one big franchise with guaranteed work for the next little while. Sue Storm is arguably a step down from super elf, bro.
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Post by Grandmaster on Oct 17, 2022 15:28:54 GMT 1
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Oct 17, 2022 15:50:53 GMT 1
Cowards! They should have given us that Sauron and Galadriel sex scene!
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Oct 17, 2022 15:59:01 GMT 1
The first season was pretty good but I'd much rather rewatch the movies than watch this season again.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Oct 17, 2022 17:00:50 GMT 1
I'm enjoying this show primarily because of its lavish production values and visual EF - House of the Dragon has issues in this department. The main cast grew on me by the season's end, but there is still something a bit bland about their performances.
This period in the history of Tolkien's fictional world is perfectly paired with the streaming medium. I couldn't imagine it as a movie. The Rings of Power is really an elaborate and expensive proof of concept for a Silmarils trilogy with Morgoth as the primary antagonist.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2022 6:23:48 GMT 1
The first season was pretty good but I'd much rather rewatch the movies than watch this season again. I think I'd have to agree too
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