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Post by taylorfirst1 on Sept 19, 2022 2:34:51 GMT 1
I'm enjoying it.
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Post by Merv on Sept 19, 2022 2:49:53 GMT 1
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Post by Grandmaster on Sept 19, 2022 19:15:25 GMT 1
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 19, 2022 20:02:56 GMT 1
There is a lot to talk about here. Number one is that the king of numenor may be the witch king. That’s my current running idea. That he’s restored by the power of a ring.
For context the LOTR lore is that the 9 are largely unknown, but it is known that 3 were numenorian and 1 was an Easterling.
Either way, I think this series is going to in part establish who the 9 were.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 20, 2022 2:09:38 GMT 1
The 2nd thing I was considering is that Adar may be an elf, possibly the original elf or one of several who were taken to breed the first orcs. Perhaps he sided with morgoth and allowed either clones of himself or elves he helped capture to be tortured.
But I do not think he is Sauron
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Post by Merv on Sept 20, 2022 9:01:38 GMT 1
The 2nd thing I was considering is that Adar may be an elf, possibly the original elf or one of several who were taken to breed the first orcs. Perhaps he sided with morgoth and allowed either clones of himself or elves he helped capture to be tortured. But I do not think he is Sauron I’ve been watching this YouTuber who talks lord of the rings lore and came across a character who sounds like an obvious connection to the Adar character. I have no idea if it will become show canon or not but it was an enlightening video to watch. For what it’s worth I do not believe it is Sauron. I can’t imagine Sauron would display the emotion Adar had over a dying orc. That right there makes him a lot more interesting than Sauron to me. I didn’t realize it’s the same actor who played Benjen Stark in GOT either.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 20, 2022 11:59:45 GMT 1
The 2nd thing I was considering is that Adar may be an elf, possibly the original elf or one of several who were taken to breed the first orcs. Perhaps he sided with morgoth and allowed either clones of himself or elves he helped capture to be tortured. But I do not think he is Sauron I’ve been watching this YouTuber who talks lord of the rings lore and came across a character who sounds like an obvious connection to the Adar character. I have no idea if it will become show canon or not but it was an enlightening video to watch. For what it’s worth I do not believe it is Sauron. I can’t imagine Sauron would display the emotion Adar had over a dying orc. That right there makes him a lot more interesting than Sauron to me. I didn’t realize it’s the same actor who played Benjen Stark in GOT either. very curious. Do you like this you tuber enough to share them? And for shine reason I was just now reminded of Grima. I wonder if it’s similar? Btw if you never have I love this site. Super detailed lore breakdowns and well presented
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 20, 2022 12:17:14 GMT 1
A 3rd thing I keep going back to is the possibility that the three stories we are seeing aren’t taking place at the same time.
This first occurred to me as studying the geography of the meteor’s path didn't seem to be possible, but assuming that’s just the way it was edited, I’m realizing that the meteor is also the only thing linking these stories together.
So what if there were multiple meteors?
I admit I wouldn’t bet on it but then again we don’t actually know otherwise. Since its used as a method of transport what what appears to be a Maiar, of which there are many, then other Maiar coming via this method is entirely possible if not likely. And if that’s the case then they easily could have come any time.
So perhaps Galadriels story is taking place near the middle of the 2nd age, the humans after the forging of the rings, and the harfoots near the war of wrath?
I’m not betting on it, but there could be something hidden in how disconnected these stories are so far.
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Sept 20, 2022 15:04:37 GMT 1
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Post by Merv on Sept 20, 2022 16:25:21 GMT 1
I’ve been watching this YouTuber who talks lord of the rings lore and came across a character who sounds like an obvious connection to the Adar character. I have no idea if it will become show canon or not but it was an enlightening video to watch. For what it’s worth I do not believe it is Sauron. I can’t imagine Sauron would display the emotion Adar had over a dying orc. That right there makes him a lot more interesting than Sauron to me. I didn’t realize it’s the same actor who played Benjen Stark in GOT either. very curious. Do you like this you tuber enough to share them? And for shine reason I was just now reminded of Grima. I wonder if it’s similar? Btw if you never have I love this site. Super detailed lore breakdowns and well presented Sure...its Nerd of the Rings. www.youtube.com/c/NerdoftheRings/videos
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Post by Merv on Sept 20, 2022 16:49:51 GMT 1
A 3rd thing I keep going back to is the possibility that the three stories we are seeing aren’t taking place at the same time. This first occurred to me as studying the geography of the meteor’s path didn't seem to be possible, but assuming that’s just the way it was edited, I’m realizing that the meteor is also the only thing linking these stories together. So what if there were multiple meteors? I admit I wouldn’t bet on it but then again we don’t actually know otherwise. Since its used as a method of transport what what appears to be a Maiar, of which there are many, then other Maiar coming via this method is entirely possible if not likely. And if that’s the case then they easily could have come any time. So perhaps Galadriels story is taking place near the middle of the 2nd age, the humans after the forging of the rings, and the harfoots near the war of wrath? I’m not betting on it, but there could be something hidden in how disconnected these stories are so far. Interesting. I don't think that we see Galadriel react to the meteor like everyone else. We see Gil-Galad, Elrond and Celebrimbor, Arondir and Bronwyn, and Nori. Obviously like you said...they may all not be the same meteor. Until the stories properly cross its hard to know for sure. I'm inclined to believe theyre all happening at the same time just because I think the multiple timeline mechanic can be a hard one to pull off properly. But we'll see eventually I assume.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 20, 2022 18:05:41 GMT 1
A 3rd thing I keep going back to is the possibility that the three stories we are seeing aren’t taking place at the same time. This first occurred to me as studying the geography of the meteor’s path didn't seem to be possible, but assuming that’s just the way it was edited, I’m realizing that the meteor is also the only thing linking these stories together. So what if there were multiple meteors? I admit I wouldn’t bet on it but then again we don’t actually know otherwise. Since its used as a method of transport what what appears to be a Maiar, of which there are many, then other Maiar coming via this method is entirely possible if not likely. And if that’s the case then they easily could have come any time. So perhaps Galadriels story is taking place near the middle of the 2nd age, the humans after the forging of the rings, and the harfoots near the war of wrath? I’m not betting on it, but there could be something hidden in how disconnected these stories are so far. Interesting. I don't think that we see Galadriel react to the meteor like everyone else. We see Gil-Galad, Elrond and Celebrimbor, Arondir and Bronwyn, and Nori. Obviously like you said...they may all not be the same meteor. Until the stories properly cross its hard to know for sure. I'm inclined to believe theyre all happening at the same time just because I think the multiple timeline mechanic can be a hard one to pull off properly. But we'll see eventually I assume. yeah I’m right with you. I am also inclined to think it’s the same time but it did occur to me that it’s possible it’s not. And I dare not guess too much more about how that would work out if it was the case.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 20, 2022 23:43:17 GMT 1
Thoughts???
I love this site for LOTR
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2022 5:30:43 GMT 1
Well, he did say no man lol
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2022 3:10:43 GMT 1
Thoughts??? I love this site for LOTR Interesting. This is pretty good. Watched a few of his other videos now. He also speculates that the stranger could be a balrog. However someone in the comments suggested that Gandalf doesnt know how to use his powers properly yet
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 22, 2022 3:31:05 GMT 1
Thoughts??? I love this site for LOTR Interesting. This is pretty good. Watched a few of his other videos now. He also speculates that the stranger could be a balrog. However someone in the comments suggested that Gandalf doesnt know how to use his powers properly yet yes yes and I’m glad you’ve seen some others. I think he does a fantastic job with details and breakdowns. I actually don’t know that I agree with his guesses here but they nonetheless make me think about the details he puts forward in a new way and I enjoy that a lot. I also think it’s amusing that we now have 3 characters who have been guessed to be Sauron so far and I wonder if it’s actually going to be a mystery for the audience at all, or if it will be clear as day when he does ultimately show up. He has some other great content on there though with deep lore
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2022 11:16:04 GMT 1
Well, we now know Eminem isnt Sauron. Still not sure about Halbrand. What was with the ice and the stranger?
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Post by Merv on Sept 23, 2022 18:57:48 GMT 1
Well, we now know Eminem isnt Sauron. Still not sure about Halbrand. What was with the ice and the stranger? Do we? We just got the one scene of him investigating the meteors landing right? I don’t expect it to be Sauron but do we actually know anything about him? I may have to rewatch. I think it’s clear the Stranger has powers…whether he’s a wizard or whatever…but he just doesn’t have control over them yet. So he was cooling his hand after the wolf attack and it got out of control. I think Nori is just concerned he could kill her accidentally. With the earlier firefly reference and him inadvertently hurting her this episode. I get the caution but she’s shown so much patience to this point with him that her reaction there felt a little out of character.
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Post by Merv on Sept 23, 2022 19:03:07 GMT 1
The really interesting thing in this one to me was Adars reaction to being called Sauron. I thought maybe he’d be an old lieutenant of Sauron’s or something but the way he reacted I now think he’s not associated at all. Now that gets me to theorizing about what his deal is. Is he actually after the sword (key) to prevent some sort of Sauron reemergence? Will the humans unknowingly bring about the greater evil? This episode answered several questions and brought about several more and I really like that.
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Post by Grandmaster on Sept 23, 2022 19:57:03 GMT 1
What an excellent episode. Lots to unpack.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2022 21:43:34 GMT 1
Well, we now know Eminem isnt Sauron. Still not sure about Halbrand. What was with the ice and the stranger? Do we? We just got the one scene of him investigating the meteors landing right? I don’t expect it to be Sauron but do we actually know anything about him? I may have to rewatch. I think it’s clear the Stranger has powers…whether he’s a wizard or whatever…but he just doesn’t have control over them yet. So he was cooling his hand after the wolf attack and it got out of control. I think Nori is just concerned he could kill her accidentally. With the earlier firefly reference and him inadvertently hurting her this episode. I get the caution but she’s shown so much patience to this point with him that her reaction there felt a little out of character. Well, unless Sauron is female now I doubt it's him. As for the stranger, im a bit confused. Was he burned? All I saw was some kind of a shockwave power
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2022 21:47:41 GMT 1
The really interesting thing in this one to me was Adars reaction to being called Sauron. I thought maybe he’d be an old lieutenant of Sauron’s or something but the way he reacted I now think he’s not associated at all. Now that gets me to theorizing about what his deal is. Is he actually after the sword (key) to prevent some sort of Sauron reemergence? Will the humans unknowingly bring about the greater evil? This episode answered several questions and brought about several more and I really like that. Yeah he seemed like he didnt care about Sauron's name. Maybe almost insulted? I dont know. Perhaps he has his own agenda? I mean the orcs were once elves. Just because you split doesnt mean youre on Sauron's side necessarily.
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Post by Merv on Sept 23, 2022 22:15:43 GMT 1
The really interesting thing in this one to me was Adars reaction to being called Sauron. I thought maybe he’d be an old lieutenant of Sauron’s or something but the way he reacted I now think he’s not associated at all. Now that gets me to theorizing about what his deal is. Is he actually after the sword (key) to prevent some sort of Sauron reemergence? Will the humans unknowingly bring about the greater evil? This episode answered several questions and brought about several more and I really like that. Yeah he seemed like he didnt care about Sauron's name. Maybe almost insulted? I dont know. Perhaps he has his own agenda? I mean the orcs were once elves. Just because you split doesnt mean youre on Sauron's side necessarily. It feels like he does have his own agenda. Obviously a lot of his motivation is still kind of a mystery but he seems particularly protective of the orc race and wanting them to kind of have a kingdom of their own perhaps. I’m interested whatever his reasoning tho. I’m really enjoying the Adar character.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2022 10:09:24 GMT 1
---Potential spoilers---
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Post by Grandmaster on Sept 25, 2022 8:14:53 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2022 13:48:50 GMT 1
Yeah that stunt the dwarf pulled was hilarious. Just to stick it to the man lol Im also a bit unsure about the king of the elves. Is he telling the truth? Or do they just want mithril because it makes for good armor providing a technological advantage? Also that Galadriel swordplay was awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2022 13:50:33 GMT 1
What do we make of Isildur so far?
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Post by Merv on Sept 25, 2022 14:28:00 GMT 1
What do we make of Isildur so far? Seems like a good guy with quite a few flaws and doesn't think things through as well as he should.
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Post by Merv on Sept 25, 2022 14:33:01 GMT 1
Yeah that stunt the dwarf pulled was hilarious. Just to stick it to the man lol Im also a bit unsure about the king of the elves. Is he telling the truth? Or do they just want mithril because it makes for good armor providing a technological advantage? Also that Galadriel swordplay was awesome. Gil Galad having already lied to Elrond and manipulated him into gaining information from a friend, potentially at the cost of that friendship, definitely paints Gil Galad in a bad light. I hope it doesn't go much further than that only because I don't want to dislike Gil Galad, but anytime a character is deceptive with another character like that it won't sit well. It does explain why Celebrimbor felt shady in the last episode tho, so Im glad that wasn't just a weird acting choice.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 25, 2022 22:08:20 GMT 1
This show is continuing to grow in interest for me and I'm starting to get some working ideas about what may be possible to happen, although it's still wildly open ended.
In summary;
- The Numenoreans are coming to "rescue" the southlanders who we now know are living in what will become Mordor. Their contingent is small however, so I believe what is likely to happen is that they will rescue the men who do not want to pledge fealty to Sauron and take them to safety at the end of this season which will result in the early stages of the settlement of Gondor.
- Related to that is Oren, the "elf" (we think) who is called by the orcs. I buy the idea that he was directly involved in creating the race of orcs to begin with, perhaps through cloning himself or capturing other elves to be turned and bred to generate further orcs. Something like that. I do not think he is Sauron, and I'm tending to think he is now being used by Sauron to instigate a threat so that others do not see where Sauron himself is moving. More on that in a bit.
- And then we have Halbrand, oddly another Sauron candidate, and mostly for the reason that he has not only run into the main protagonist rather randomly, but taken up this call to be king of the Southlands (which again we now know to be Mordor), and shown proficiency in both coercion and smithing (both traits of Sauron). I'm curious about this character but I tend to think he may end up being either one of the 9 and/or that since he is not Numenorean will be gifted his own lands around the newly established Gondor which will eventually become Rohan.
- Galadrial herself is why I don't think Halbrand is Sauron. While there are some merits to the case including that Gilgalad said her continued question would lead to his rise, I don't know why Sauron would need her help at all. And even if he did, why he played coy last episode when she'd already given her stamp of approval to make him king.
- Gilgalad may have already been mislead and Sauron is in his midst as we speak. Hence the corruption. We have yet to see Annatar, but with the forge well underway, I have to believe that is for the specific purpose of forging the rings of power and thus insinuates Annatar has already convinced them to build it. Now could he have done so and then slipped away since and shape shifted to that of Halbrand to find Galadriel at sea? Perhaps. Again I don't see why he'd need to do that though.
- The other factor here is the almost odd origin of Mythril. Oren had said the elves and such had been told many lies and so perhaps this was one of them, because this Silmarilian origin of Mythril seems to exist to cause distrust between elves and dwarves. In the legendarium, the silmarils were all 3 accounted for, and none were buried in a tree on top of the Misty Mountains. But perhaps it fits into the story in some other way. Still I tend to think this is a lie spread by Sauron.
- And then again we might have now seen Annatar, with the mysterious trio in white examining the crater of meteor man. Could this be Annatar having slipped away at the sight of the meteor? I can't rule it out, but IDK. My gut says no. I just don't know enough about him yet to completely rule it out.
- Speaking of Meteor Man, he continues to seem alternatingly benign and endlessly helpful, and then suddenly sinister. Max is convinced he is a prior version of Gandalf, and I'm half convinced. We know during Gandalf's relatively short death during LOTR, that so much time had passed in his realm he had nearly forgotten himself. Now imagine this is the same Maiar spirit, but by the time he dies in this show and re-emerges in the 3rd age as Gandalf, he will have completely lost all memory of it, except for an instinctual affinity for hobbits after his time here. I actually do buy that.
- But what is Meteor Man's function in the show? It's not to defeat Sauron. If we think this out, the rings won't even have been made until probably the end of season 2 at the earliest. And Sauron won't reveal himself until after that. So what is Meteor Man going to do for the next 2 full seasons? I think he may likely save the hobbits from something related to Sauron's forces, dying in the process.
- Let's pause for a moment and discuss the timescale. This is all happening somewhere around the year 1200 of the second age, when the rings of power were made according to Tolkein. The War of the Last Alliance to cut the one ring from Sauron's hand doesn't happen until 3400ish. That's 2200 years for those keeping score at home. The rings themselves weren't finished until 1500, another 300 years from where the story is now. So at some point this story is going to have to jump forward in time drastically, a lot of the characters will no longer exist from season to season.
- So what of the Harfoots then? It's too early to settle Hobbiton. I don't know what they do other than get Meteor Man to wherever his endpoint is. After that, we may not see them the rest of the show. Perhaps their descendants will pop up? IDK.
- It's the map for them that is most curious. I was trying to follow it last time and it seems they have drifted south from the southern portions of Mirkwood, across the marshes which will eventually be the dead marshes, and east past the northen mountain border of Mordor. It's possible they even make it to the Sea of Rhun. Why though? I have no idea. Couldn't even guess. I see guesses about making it to where the Shire is, but this is again 3000 years or more before that should take place. Arnor hasn't even been established yet, and the shire was a gift to them in the third age. So I don't see this group getting over there yet at all.
- Perhaps this does in fact mean that Meteor Man is one of the blue wizards if they are headed East, and perhaps that does still fit into Max's idea that the blue wizards may have been precursors to Gandalf and Saruman which time forced them to essentially not be able to recall. Crazy? Yes. Possible? Yes. Maybe lol
Sauron Candidates - Oren (NO) - Halbrand (ehhhhh, possible, but I don't think so) - Eminem (not impossible, but I feel like it's a no) - The Stranger (no. I don't see it making sense.)
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