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Post by Lord Death Man on May 16, 2022 0:36:16 GMT 1
This conversation is made doubly difficult because the MCU blurs the line between heroes, villains and people with different points of view. Wanda holds the distinction of being the MCU's first unrepentant villain. She's purely and unapologetically selfish, and, she's clearly insane - thus putting the madness in MoM. Hate to invoke the "bitches be crazy" trope, but Wanda was willing to murder and maim over imaginary children. No, she doesn't. That's Obediah Stane way back in the very first Ironman film. But she did repent in the end. Stand certainly had a high degree of sociopathy, but he was still sane enough to cover his tracks. Wanda couldn't be bothered with the pretense of appearing to be good and rational.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 16, 2022 0:38:38 GMT 1
No, she doesn't. That's Obediah Stane way back in the very first Ironman film. But she did repent in the end. Stand certainly had a high degree of sociopathy, but he was still sane enough to cover his tracks. Wanda couldn't be bothered with the pretense of appearing to be good and rational. Fair enough. But she did relent, even if it was far, far too late to make it right by then.
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Post by AQUA KEN! on May 16, 2022 0:48:23 GMT 1
Apparently this film is woke. Why? I don't know, I'm guessing because it had a diverse cast and isn't 100% filled with straight white cismale.
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Post by Merv on May 16, 2022 2:05:05 GMT 1
Apparently this film is woke. Why? I don't know, I'm guessing because it had a diverse cast and isn't 100% filled with straight white cismale. Has anyone successfully defined 'woke' yet or is it another word that is only used to fit the situation like 'liberal' or 'f-ck'?
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Post by taylorfirst1 on May 16, 2022 2:14:15 GMT 1
Apparently this film is woke. Why? I don't know, I'm guessing because it had a diverse cast and isn't 100% filled with straight white cismale. Has anyone successfully defined 'woke' yet or is it another word that is only used to fit the situation like 'liberal' or 'f-ck'? Ask the people who invented it to describe themselves but now run away from it because people found out what it means. They are the same people who called themselves sjw but run away from that now and before that they called themselves progressive but they run away from that now.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 16, 2022 2:17:00 GMT 1
Apparently this film is woke. Why? I don't know, I'm guessing because it had a diverse cast and isn't 100% filled with straight white cismale. Has anyone successfully defined 'woke' yet or is it another word that is only used to fit the situation like 'liberal' or 'f-ck'? I go woke everytime my alarm clock goes off.
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Post by Lord Death Man on May 16, 2022 2:37:38 GMT 1
Apparently this film is woke. Why? I don't know, I'm guessing because it had a diverse cast and isn't 100% filled with straight white cismale. Here are 10 things that seem to trouble the anti-woke movement. {Spoiler}Christine's husband is a black man America Chavez has two mothers America Chavez is presumably Latinx (and gay per the comic books) Wong is likely in an interracial relationship Wanda is a single mom Wanda handily defeats three straight white males in open combat Captain Marvel, an already polarizing, "leftist" figure, is race swapped Captain America is gender swapped Doctor Strange isn't the Sorcerer Supreme, is made to bow to an Asian Sorcerer Supreme - and Strange is clearly and utterly no match for a woman - aka the Scarlet Witch A green Minotaur appears in the film Intriguing…
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Post by Merv on May 16, 2022 2:40:30 GMT 1
Apparently this film is woke. Why? I don't know, I'm guessing because it had a diverse cast and isn't 100% filled with straight white cismale. Here are 10 things that seem to trouble the anti-woke movement. {Spoiler}Christine's husband is a black man America Chavez has two mothers America Chavez is presumably Latinx (and gay per the comic books) Wong is likely in an interracial relationship Wanda is a single mom Wanda handily defeats three straight white males in open combat Captain Marvel, an already polarizing, "leftist" figure, is race swapped Captain America is gender swapped Doctor Strange isn't the Sorcerer Supreme, is made to bow to an Asian Sorcerer Supreme - and Strange is clearly and utterly no match for a woman - aka the Scarlet Witch A green Minotaur appears in the film Intriguing… That last one got a genuine chuckle out of me. lol
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 2:43:41 GMT 1
Has anyone successfully defined 'woke' yet or is it another word that is only used to fit the situation like 'liberal' or 'f-ck'? Ask the people who invented it to describe themselves but now run away from it because people found out what it means. They are the same people who called themselves sjw but run away from that now and before that they called themselves progressive but they run away from that now. Who did the what now?
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Post by Lord Death Man on May 16, 2022 2:44:25 GMT 1
Here are 10 things that seem to trouble the anti-woke movement. {Spoiler}Christine's husband is a black man America Chavez has two mothers America Chavez is presumably Latinx (and gay per the comic books) Wong is likely in an interracial relationship Wanda is a single mom Wanda handily defeats three straight white males in open combat Captain Marvel, an already polarizing, "leftist" figure, is race swapped Captain America is gender swapped Doctor Strange isn't the Sorcerer Supreme, is made to bow to an Asian Sorcerer Supreme - and Strange is clearly and utterly no match for a woman - aka the Scarlet Witch A green Minotaur appears in the film Intriguing… That last one got a genuine chuckle out of me. lol
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 2:49:29 GMT 1
Speaking of the Minotaur, apparently he had more screen time in the early cut. I would’ve liked to see more of an intro for him. In the comics he’s an alien, right?
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Post by AQUA KEN! on May 16, 2022 2:51:04 GMT 1
Apparently this film is woke. Why? I don't know, I'm guessing because it had a diverse cast and isn't 100% filled with straight white cismale. Here are 10 things that seem to trouble the anti-woke movement. {Spoiler}Christine's husband is a black man America Chavez has two mothers America Chavez is presumably Latinx (and gay per the comic books) Wong is likely in an interracial relationship Wanda is a single mom Wanda handily defeats three straight white males in open combat Captain Marvel, an already polarizing, "leftist" figure, is race swapped Captain America is gender swapped Doctor Strange isn't the Sorcerer Supreme, is made to bow to an Asian Sorcerer Supreme - and Strange is clearly and utterly no match for a woman - aka the Scarlet Witch A green Minotaur appears in the film Intriguing… Sounds about right. There was a discussion on IMDbv2 about the certain fight scene and hoe it treated two certain characters.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 16, 2022 2:53:33 GMT 1
Ask the people who invented it to describe themselves but now run away from it because people found out what it means. They are the same people who called themselves sjw but run away from that now and before that they called themselves progressive but they run away from that now. Who did the what now? Who watches The Watchers?
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Post by AQUA KEN! on May 16, 2022 2:53:41 GMT 1
Apparently this film is woke. Why? I don't know, I'm guessing because it had a diverse cast and isn't 100% filled with straight white cismale. Has anyone successfully defined 'woke' yet or is it another word that is only used to fit the situation like 'liberal' or 'f-ck'? It's just another popular used word, like sjw or cuck for example.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 16, 2022 2:54:06 GMT 1
Here are 10 things that seem to trouble the anti-woke movement. {Spoiler}Christine's husband is a black man America Chavez has two mothers America Chavez is presumably Latinx (and gay per the comic books) Wong is likely in an interracial relationship Wanda is a single mom Wanda handily defeats three straight white males in open combat Captain Marvel, an already polarizing, "leftist" figure, is race swapped Captain America is gender swapped Doctor Strange isn't the Sorcerer Supreme, is made to bow to an Asian Sorcerer Supreme - and Strange is clearly and utterly no match for a woman - aka the Scarlet Witch A green Minotaur appears in the film Intriguing… Sounds about right. There was a discussion on IMDbv2 about the certain fight scene and hoe it treated two certain characters. Our bold knight has chosen violence in that discussion.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 16, 2022 2:57:04 GMT 1
Here are 10 things that seem to trouble the anti-woke movement. {Spoiler}Christine's husband is a black man America Chavez has two mothers America Chavez is presumably Latinx (and gay per the comic books) Wong is likely in an interracial relationship Wanda is a single mom Wanda handily defeats three straight white males in open combat Captain Marvel, an already polarizing, "leftist" figure, is race swapped Captain America is gender swapped Doctor Strange isn't the Sorcerer Supreme, is made to bow to an Asian Sorcerer Supreme - and Strange is clearly and utterly no match for a woman - aka the Scarlet Witch A green Minotaur appears in the film Intriguing… Sounds about right. There was a discussion on IMDbv2 about the certain fight scene and hoe it treated two certain characters. I just saw that the other guy got banned for being such a total jerk to everyone over something he wasn't "upset by". I can't believe Admin John just made a dicision I agree with.
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Post by Lord Death Man on May 16, 2022 4:08:38 GMT 1
Speaking of the Minotaur, apparently he had more screen time in the early cut. I would’ve liked to see more of an intro for him. In the comics he’s an alien, right? Rintrah is an extra dimensional alien from the planet R'Vaal. He is known for being an apprentice to Dr. Strange. That said, there is another bovine character who is arguably more famous in Marvel comics and was snubbed for our green friend. In the comics Bova Ayrshire is midwife and caretaker to the infant Pietro and Wanda. Basically, their nanny… A hyper-evolved cow, as opposed to a green bull, might have sent the wokeness meter off of the scale for MoM. Who's to say, of course?
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Post by Grandmaster on May 16, 2022 4:36:25 GMT 1
This is perhaps just my personal preference, but I do feel like Wanda would’ve been better served with more solo projects and Dr Strange would’ve been better served with a movie that could focus on his mythos without having to also serve as a Wanda movie. Just my two cents. I don’t think I’ll ever change my mind on that. Me, neither. As I believe Chalice_Of_Evil and you have both said, the film could have dropped all the cameos and been better served with all the screen time dedicated to showing us what's up with Strange and Wanda. Totally agree
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 6:09:27 GMT 1
Speaking of the Minotaur, apparently he had more screen time in the early cut. I would’ve liked to see more of an intro for him. In the comics he’s an alien, right? Rintrah is an extra dimensional alien from the planet R'Vaal. He is known for being an apprentice to Dr. Strange. That said, there is another bovine character who is arguably more famous in Marvel comics and was snubbed for our green friend. In the comics Bova Ayrshire is midwife and caretaker to the infant Pietro and Wanda. Basically, their nanny… A hyper-evolved cow, as opposed to a green bull, might have sent the wokeness meter off of the scale for MoM. Who's to say, of course? I’m just glad Rintrah survived. Wanda didn’t kill him because she had no beef with him. Now he can return in the sequel when the steaks are higher. (Insert third pun about a dairy product).
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Post by Grandmaster on May 16, 2022 6:18:07 GMT 1
Rintrah is an extra dimensional alien from the planet R'Vaal. He is known for being an apprentice to Dr. Strange. That said, there is another bovine character who is arguably more famous in Marvel comics and was snubbed for our green friend. In the comics Bova Ayrshire is midwife and caretaker to the infant Pietro and Wanda. Basically, their nanny… A hyper-evolved cow, as opposed to a green bull, might have sent the wokeness meter off of the scale for MoM. Who's to say, of course? I’m just glad Rintrah survived. Wanda didn’t kill him because she had no beef with him. Now he can return in the sequel when the steaks are higher. (Insert third pun about a dairy product). You're really milking the last drop out of this joke.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 7:01:59 GMT 1
I’m just glad Rintrah survived. Wanda didn’t kill him because she had no beef with him. Now he can return in the sequel when the steaks are higher. (Insert third pun about a dairy product). You're really milking the last drop out of this joke. I know. It’s udderly ridiculous.
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Post by Chalice_Of_Evil on May 16, 2022 8:50:12 GMT 1
I just hope that this doesn't scare Marvel away from doing more horror. Cameos I can take or leave, but I want more horror stuff. Yes, just like I hate the thought that the people who complained about Eternals may influence Marvel in not making anymore of those films, I'm equally afraid of Marvel being put off of furthering exploring 'horror elements' in their future films. Out of all the complaints I had regarding the movie, the 'horror' stuff wasn't one of them. Do you?! Supported a killer robot’s global genocide? No, she supported destroying The Avengers, when she discovered his real plan she left him and joined them. Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos? You mean accidentally, while trying to save Cap? Broke out of prison? You mean, by Cap? Along with half the Avengers? Exactly. She was an anger-filled young person who, along with her brother, was taken advantage of by a Murder Bot who didn't tell them everything. They thought they were getting revenge against the person who was responsible (no matter how 'indirectly') for their parents deaths (along with the rest of their village). They figured anyone who'd team with someone who'd wipe out their village must've been just as bad as Stark. However, once they learned Murder Bot was homicidal and his true intentions, they realised they were on the wrong side and switched to the side of 'good'. Yes, they made serious mistakes, but the Avengers themselves we able to to forgive and grant them another chance at beginning to right the wrongs they'd done. Considering how many other characters have been given chances to reform...why not the Maximoffs? I don't know why the explosion in Lagos is still being debated when it's really quite simple. Crossbones went all suicide bomber, Wanda immediately contained the blast as best she could, she had SECONDS to get him as far away from the INNOCENT PEOPLE ON THE GROUND, so she floated him up AWAY from the people on the street...but she obviously wasn't as strong then as she has become now, so as best as she tried to get him away from the populace, the explosion still happened. Yes, it took out a percentage of people in the building...but what would've happened if she hadn't intervened? All the people on the ground would be dead. She did the best she could with the time she had and the pwoer strength she was at...and if she hadn't, more would've died. And instead of commending her for the lives she saved, she's instead condemned for those who inadvertently took. Cap clearly wasn't presented as a 'villain', but a rogue (there's a difference). *He* broke his friends out of jail, and considering Wanda was straightjacketed and collared like a DOG, I don't blame her for wanting out. She started out as a villain, then joined the Avengers. I don’t see any nuance in her portrayal in Civil War to End Game. She was just another Avenger in those movies. If we were meant to see her as morally ambiguous there it must have gone over my head. To say the deaths in Lagos and escape from jail were a foreshadowing of her villainy is an interesting interpretation though. The only reason she even did anything in Lagos was because Cap froze up when Frank Grillo started taunting him about Bucky. I can't agree with you, Doctor Ghost, that she showed 'no nuance'. One thing that's been praised about Doctor Strange in the MoM is Elizabeth Olsen's performance, and she's been giving complex performances since her character was introduced (it seems only *now* that she's getting the kudos she deserves). If, however, you were saying that you didn't see any signs of her flirting with being 'bad' again...then I can pretty much agree. I mean, what she did to Vision when Hawkeye helped her escape was pretty rough, but I never did see any signs in the other movies that she ever wanted to return to being how she was at the start of AoU. She *knew* she'd messed up, and had been doing penance ever since. And yes, weirdratpro, people seem to forget that Crossbones only had the chance to detonate his bomb because Cap froze up. Does that make Cap the 'bad guy'? No. Nor does what Wanda did in her attempt to save people make her the 'bad guy' either. “Just because someone stumbles and loses their path, doesn't mean they're lost forever.” I'm glad this line was used again by Charles Xavier. Great line from the Days of Future Past film. I'd be fine if they bring back Patrick Stewart as Xavier in the X-Men 97 revival series. So was I. It gives me hope that future movies may try to 'redeem' Wanda (even if it seems like an impossible task at this point in time). This conversation is made doubly difficult because the MCU blurs the line between heroes, villains and people with different points of view. Wanda holds the distinction of being the MCU's first unrepentant villain. She's purely and unapologetically selfish, and, she's clearly insane - thus putting the madness in MoM. Hate to invoke the "bitches be crazy" trope, but Wanda was willing to murder and maim over imaginary children. No, she doesn't. That's Obediah Stane way back in the very first Ironman film. But she did repent in the end. They weren't 'imaginary' to her. That's why people who ask "Why doesn't she just create some new children?" miss the point. That's like asking parents who've lost kids, "Why not just have some more or adopt some?". The children were *hers* and any other ones would be 'copies', not the 'originals' for her. That 'bitches be crazy' phrase needs to be erased from existence. It's the same sort of view as those who wrote the last two episodes of GoT must've had - that women can't handle power or their emotions and are 'crazy bitches' for no reason. I wonder if Loki could be described as a 'crazy bitch' since his daddy issues were his 'reason' for doing bad things and murdering people. But, hey, he's 'charming' and 'funny'...so he gets a pass. We've seen since Hawkeye gave Wanda that pep talk about being an Avenger in AoU Wanda's guilt over what she's done. She's said it outright, she had further guilt after Lagos, and has been made to feel like the 'villain' even when she was being a hero. In a way, it's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy - if all everyone does is make you believe your 'bad'...how long before you start believing it too? From what I saw of her character, she felt guilt over the things she did right up to Endgame. Unfortunately because of lousy Disney+ not releasing WandaVision on DVD/Blu-ray, I never got to see that show, but from what others told me she *did* end up undoing her spell on the town and felt guilt over it. However, instead of her fellow Avengers being there to have an intervention with her/help her through all this, they seemingly abandoned her and she was left alone in a cabin with a book of evil - no wonder she was susceptible to the Darkhold, since she had no support system. But, hey, once Strange needs her help...THEN he seeks her out. They really dropped the ball by not having Clint, who'd started her on the path to becoming an Avenger, show up to help her deal with what she'd done. Apparently this film is woke. Why? I don't know, I'm guessing because it had a diverse cast and isn't 100% filled with straight white cismale. Here are 10 things that seem to trouble the anti-woke movement. {Spoiler}Christine's husband is a black man America Chavez has two mothers America Chavez is presumably Latinx (and gay per the comic books) Wong is likely in an interracial relationship Wanda is a single mom Wanda handily defeats three straight white males in open combat Captain Marvel, an already polarizing, "leftist" figure, is race swapped Captain America is gender swapped Doctor Strange isn't the Sorcerer Supreme, is made to bow to an Asian Sorcerer Supreme - and Strange is clearly and utterly no match for a woman - aka the Scarlet Witch A green Minotaur appears in the film Intriguing… 'Intriguing' is one word for it. Another is 'pathetic'. **spoilers below** I think the main one I've seen certain people bitching about is her taking out the male members of the Illuminati first. For the sake of argument, let's look at the scene logically. Who is the biggest threat to Wanda out of the four who confront her? I'd imagine Black Bolt, if like Mr. Fantastic says, he could take Wanda out with just one word from his mouth. So, isn't natural that since she's being threatened with him that he's the first one she removes from the game? Clearly he could defeat her in one second flat with his speech, so of course she's going to take away his one source of power - ie. his mouth. Once he's gone, Mr. Fantastic is the one who is closest to her and also tries to fight her, so doesn't it make sense that he's the next one she takes out? The two women are dodging and ducking, so it's harder for Wanda to attack them, but eventually she does. As for America's two mothers...they didn't even have any dialogue nor did we see them snog (there was more of that in Eternals with the two dads). Has anyone successfully defined 'woke' yet or is it another word that is only used to fit the situation like 'liberal' or 'f-ck'? It's just another popular used word, like sjw or cuck for example. Like 'Jiminy Jillickers', the word 'woke' has lost all meaning (if it even *had* proper 'meaning' to begin with). Now, rather than actually explain why they think a movie or show or whatever is 'woke', those who use the word just throw it out there as their entire 'argument' against a show/movie/whatever. They call it 'woke' and that's meant to be the end of it. It's sheer laziness and shows they can't actually back up their criticisms. Rintrah is an extra dimensional alien from the planet R'Vaal. He is known for being an apprentice to Dr. Strange. That said, there is another bovine character who is arguably more famous in Marvel comics and was snubbed for our green friend. In the comics Bova Ayrshire is midwife and caretaker to the infant Pietro and Wanda. Basically, their nanny… A hyper-evolved cow, as opposed to a green bull, might have sent the wokeness meter off of the scale for MoM. Who's to say, of course? I’m just glad Rintrah survived. Wanda didn’t kill him because she had no beef with him. Now he can return in the sequel when the steaks are higher. (Insert third pun about a dairy product). I liked the green bull dude too and was also relieved he wasn't one of the casualties. You're really milking the last drop out of this joke. I know. It’s udderly ridiculous. I imagine BATCOW™ would find you two cowmedians most amoosing.
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Post by Merv on May 16, 2022 13:04:52 GMT 1
You're really milking the last drop out of this joke. I know. It’s udderly ridiculous I think it's time to moove on.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 18:33:42 GMT 1
I know. It’s udderly ridiculous I think it's time to moove on. I call bull on that! I curd do this for days!
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 18:37:11 GMT 1
Chalice_Of_Evil, I didn’t mean to say that her character had no nuance at all. I worded that poorly. I only meant in regards to her moral stance. Which is to say that I saw nothing in those movies following AoU to suggest she was on the path to becoming a villain again, or was still walking the line between hero and villain.
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Post by Lord Death Man on May 16, 2022 20:01:50 GMT 1
I just hope that this doesn't scare Marvel away from doing more horror. Cameos I can take or leave, but I want more horror stuff. Yes, just like I hate the thought that the people who complained about Eternals may influence Marvel in not making anymore of those films, I'm equally afraid of Marvel being put off of furthering exploring 'horror elements' in their future films. Out of all the complaints I had regarding the movie, the 'horror' stuff wasn't one of them. Do you?! Supported a killer robot’s global genocide? No, she supported destroying The Avengers, when she discovered his real plan she left him and joined them. Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos? You mean accidentally, while trying to save Cap? Broke out of prison? You mean, by Cap? Along with half the Avengers? Exactly. She was an anger-filled young person who, along with her brother, was taken advantage of by a Murder Bot who didn't tell them everything. They thought they were getting revenge against the person who was responsible (no matter how 'indirectly') for their parents deaths (along with the rest of their village). They figured anyone who'd team with someone who'd wipe out their village must've been just as bad as Stark. However, once they learned Murder Bot was homicidal and his true intentions, they realised they were on the wrong side and switched to the side of 'good'. Yes, they made serious mistakes, but the Avengers themselves we able to to forgive and grant them another chance at beginning to right the wrongs they'd done. Considering how many other characters have been given chances to reform...why not the Maximoffs? I don't know why the explosion in Lagos is still being debated when it's really quite simple. Crossbones went all suicide bomber, Wanda immediately contained the blast as best she could, she had SECONDS to get him as far away from the INNOCENT PEOPLE ON THE GROUND, so she floated him up AWAY from the people on the street...but she obviously wasn't as strong then as she has become now, so as best as she tried to get him away from the populace, the explosion still happened. Yes, it took out a percentage of people in the building...but what would've happened if she hadn't intervened? All the people on the ground would be dead. She did the best she could with the time she had and the pwoer strength she was at...and if she hadn't, more would've died. And instead of commending her for the lives she saved, she's instead condemned for those who inadvertently took. Cap clearly wasn't presented as a 'villain', but a rogue (there's a difference). *He* broke his friends out of jail, and considering Wanda was straightjacketed and collared like a DOG, I don't blame her for wanting out. The only reason she even did anything in Lagos was because Cap froze up when Frank Grillo started taunting him about Bucky. I can't agree with you, Doctor Ghost, that she showed 'no nuance'. One thing that's been praised about Doctor Strange in the MoM is Elizabeth Olsen's performance, and she's been giving complex performances since her character was introduced (it seems only *now* that she's getting the kudos she deserves). If, however, you were saying that you didn't see any signs of her flirting with being 'bad' again...then I can pretty much agree. I mean, what she did to Vision when Hawkeye helped her escape was pretty rough, but I never did see any signs in the other movies that she ever wanted to return to being how she was at the start of AoU. She *knew* she'd messed up, and had been doing penance ever since. And yes, weirdratpro, people seem to forget that Crossbones only had the chance to detonate his bomb because Cap froze up. Does that make Cap the 'bad guy'? No. Nor does what Wanda did in her attempt to save people make her the 'bad guy' either. “Just because someone stumbles and loses their path, doesn't mean they're lost forever.” I'm glad this line was used again by Charles Xavier. Great line from the Days of Future Past film. I'd be fine if they bring back Patrick Stewart as Xavier in the X-Men 97 revival series. So was I. It gives me hope that future movies may try to 'redeem' Wanda (even if it seems like an impossible task at this point in time). No, she doesn't. That's Obediah Stane way back in the very first Ironman film. But she did repent in the end. They weren't 'imaginary' to her. That's why people who ask "Why doesn't she just create some new children?" miss the point. That's like asking parents who've lost kids, "Why not just have some more or adopt some?". The children were *hers* and any other ones would be 'copies', not the 'originals' for her. That 'bitches be crazy' phrase needs to be erased from existence. It's the same sort of view as those who wrote the last two episodes of GoT must've had - that women can't handle power or their emotions and are 'crazy bitches' for no reason. I wonder if Loki could be described as a 'crazy bitch' since his daddy issues were his 'reason' for doing bad things and murdering people. But, hey, he's 'charming' and 'funny'...so he gets a pass. We've seen since Hawkeye gave Wanda that pep talk about being an Avenger in AoU Wanda's guilt over what she's done. She's said it outright, she had further guilt after Lagos, and has been made to feel like the 'villain' even when she was being a hero. In a way, it's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy - if all everyone does is make you believe your 'bad'...how long before you start believing it too? From what I saw of her character, she felt guilt over the things she did right up to Endgame. Unfortunately because of lousy Disney+ not releasing WandaVision on DVD/Blu-ray, I never got to see that show, but from what others told me she *did* end up undoing her spell on the town and felt guilt over it. However, instead of her fellow Avengers being there to have an intervention with her/help her through all this, they seemingly abandoned her and she was left alone in a cabin with a book of evil - no wonder she was susceptible to the Darkhold, since she had no support system. But, hey, once Strange needs her help...THEN he seeks her out. They really dropped the ball by not having Clint, who'd started her on the path to becoming an Avenger, show up to help her deal with what she'd done. Here are 10 things that seem to trouble the anti-woke movement. {Spoiler}Christine's husband is a black man America Chavez has two mothers America Chavez is presumably Latinx (and gay per the comic books) Wong is likely in an interracial relationship Wanda is a single mom Wanda handily defeats three straight white males in open combat Captain Marvel, an already polarizing, "leftist" figure, is race swapped Captain America is gender swapped Doctor Strange isn't the Sorcerer Supreme, is made to bow to an Asian Sorcerer Supreme - and Strange is clearly and utterly no match for a woman - aka the Scarlet Witch A green Minotaur appears in the film Intriguing… 'Intriguing' is one word for it. Another is 'pathetic'. **spoilers below** I think the main one I've seen certain people bitching about is her taking out the male members of the Illuminati first. For the sake of argument, let's look at the scene logically. Who is the biggest threat to Wanda out of the four who confront her? I'd imagine Black Bolt, if like Mr. Fantastic says, he could take Wanda out with just one word from his mouth. So, isn't natural that since she's being threatened with him that he's the first one she removes from the game? Clearly he could defeat her in one second flat with his speech, so of course she's going to take away his one source of power - ie. his mouth. Once he's gone, Mr. Fantastic is the one who is closest to her and also tries to fight her, so doesn't it make sense that he's the next one she takes out? The two women are dodging and ducking, so it's harder for Wanda to attack them, but eventually she does. As for America's two mothers...they didn't even have any dialogue nor did we see them snog (there was more of that in Eternals with the two dads). It's just another popular used word, like sjw or cuck for example. Like 'Jiminy Jillickers', the word 'woke' has lost all meaning (if it even *had* proper 'meaning' to begin with). Now, rather than actually explain why they think a movie or show or whatever is 'woke', those who use the word just throw it out there as their entire 'argument' against a show/movie/whatever. They call it 'woke' and that's meant to be the end of it. It's sheer laziness and shows they can't actually back up their criticisms. I’m just glad Rintrah survived. Wanda didn’t kill him because she had no beef with him. Now he can return in the sequel when the steaks are higher. (Insert third pun about a dairy product). I liked the green bull dude too and was also relieved he wasn't one of the casualties. I know. It’s udderly ridiculous. I imagine BATCOW™ would find you two cowmedians most amoosing. The cause of the Westview anomaly was not immediately known or understood. For a good portion of the series, it was unclear if Wanda was a prisoner or under the influence of a foreign agency? SWORD felt they could handle Westview using internal/external non-enhanced resources (e.g., Jimmy Woo, Monica Rambeau, etc.). Additionally, SWORD's director, Tyler Hayward, had plans to repurpose Vision's corpse without Wanda or the Avenger's permission. It was to his advantage not to get the Avengers involved. I bring this up because it explains why the Avengers were not present to intervene. Of course, others will say that Strange should have sensed this and so and so should have heard this, but I don't personally subscribe to that type of fan-serving speculation. By the time Westview went public, the situation was largely resolved, and the status quo was restored. I don't think the Avengers needed to intervene for the town's safety, and barring Civil War, they are not a court of law and don't police each other without direction from a higher authority. Even Strange showing up would have taken the series in a direction that undercut Wanda's narrative - IMO. No one would have appreciated a male sorcerer mansplaining to or rebuking Wanda at the end without being privy to her whole story. Wanda expresses remorse and regrets her actions at the end of the series; however, she flees the scene as police arrive rather than submit to their authority. I don't think it was on the Avengers to get together to have an intervention with her. There was no need for it at the point. Clint has a family and concerns of his own. An intervention with an asset he recruited in the field wouldn't have been his highest priority. Wanda is an anti-hero, in my opinion. She saves the people of Westview from a disaster that she created. She sides with the Avengers in Sokovia to resolve a situation she was partially responsible for creating. She also wanted to take revenge on Ultron for his part in her brother's death. She submitted herself to experiments not to join the Sokovian defense force but to take revenge on Tony Stark. Wanda is a nuanced character, and I think Marvel has done a great job setting her up as a villain. And not to pull the sexism card, but I hardly think we'd even be debating this if she was a male character.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 18, 2022 7:27:47 GMT 1
Finally got tickets to go see this with Max technically today (Wednesday) at noon. Can’t wait actually.
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Post by Grandmaster on May 18, 2022 11:50:32 GMT 1
Finally got tickets to go see this with Max technically today (Wednesday) at noon. Can’t wait actually. I know you will love it.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 18, 2022 21:12:34 GMT 1
Finally got tickets to go see this with Max technically today (Wednesday) at noon. Can’t wait actually. I know you will love it. just walked out. Fun stuff. Lots of great shots. Definitely rami. Cameos worked. Annnnnnnnd It’s Over!!! You know what I mean
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 18, 2022 22:06:10 GMT 1
So Wanda’s clearly not dead. Where does she turn up next? Because I feel like she’s still broken and her sense of belonging will now transition perhaps into the arrival of mutants,,, perhaps,,, instead of the rescue of her children. Loved how she had to confront herself as the resolution to MOM. An even more appropriate title now that I’ve seen it.
What’s up with the 3rd eye and Clea? Is that it’s own story, because I predict we’re going to ‘Loki takes the throne’ this and skip to whatever happens after that. Still not entirely sure what the eye itself is about though.
Alternate Mordo was great if for no other reason than Strange effectively confirmed that more shit had gone down between him and Mordo in the main timeline.
Favorite moment was definitely ghost Wanda jumping out of a red demonic cloud to psychic neck snap professor x
Weirdest moment was the insane coincidence of alt Christine assigning the same continuity number to the Main timeline as head bullshit artist Mysterio had.
America Chavez is awesome. I love her innocence and her power set. Love how it was developed. Love her backstory and her look. Can’t wait to see her again and I hope she finds her moms.
Hippie New York City was star trekkian idealistic in the best way possible and made me actively wonder how a society ever gets to “free food” is normal
BTW the semi resolution with Christine was also a nice and effective subplot
But evil Strange’s haunted house provided at least the top 3 visuals of the film. That staircase was so good I want to make it wallpaper in my house.
I am super glad this wasn’t “Xmen walk through a plot hole - the movie” and that the cameos were what I consider the ideal way to use the multiverse. These are alternates meant to play a short role that affects the real characters and then leave, in this case die epically in every case. With the exception of America of course. It’s cool to have the occasional sticks around for the long haul character. Just not whole swaths of characters. Frankly the fandom itself has discouraged me from more active discussion recently by the ongoing requests for lowest bar possible appearances. That said, Captain Carter was awesome. Great to see Haley again. Photon/Captain Marvel was cool, and made me wonder where Carol was. Reed was glorious. Sick death.
But Wanda was the star for me. Her lament was not fully processed after all (as we knew it wouldn’t be) she’s tried understandably to get her kids back despite being aware and accepting of the fact that she mind raped so many people over the loss of her family once before. This time her attempt began as a noble effort in peace but the process of doing so nonetheless corrupted her. And again I don’t think the “Wanda makes a bad decision” story is done just yet.
My biggest question however is,,, in what reality did Wanda actually have kids? Were they also her magical creation?
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