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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 1:10:56 GMT 1
Good. Now stop cramming in crap from defunct franchises nobody except you cares about anymore, Feige. You’re not excited for Darth Vader to enter the MCU via the multiverse? The audience would be all “Look! It’s that character from another movie who I loved in that movie I saw him in! Now he’s in this movie… somehow. Nostalgia! Take my money!”
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 15, 2022 1:13:02 GMT 1
Good. Now stop cramming in crap from defunct franchises nobody except you cares about anymore, Feige. You’re not excited for Darth Vader to enter the MCU via the multiverse? The audience would be all “Look! It’s that character from another movie who I loved in that movie I saw him in! Now he’s in this movie… somehow. Nostalgia! Take my money!” Hopefully this gets the message across that people still want a consistent, self-contained universe. If this doesn't scare them into backing off of the tacky Multiverse cameos, nothing will.
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Post by AQUA KEN! on May 15, 2022 1:13:12 GMT 1
My guess os people hyped themselves into thinking that this film is going to be filled with multiple cameos (like Deadpool for example) and when that didn't happened, they obviously got upset over it.
After seeing how successful No Way Home was, maybe Marvel should have done it with Doctor Strange 2.
That or maybe superhero fatigue is actually starting to happen.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 15, 2022 1:16:26 GMT 1
My guess os people hyped themselves into thinking that this film is going to be filled with multiple cameos (like Deadpool for example) and when that didn't happened, they obviously got upset over it. After seeing how successful No Way Home was, maybe Marvel should have done it with Doctor Strange 2. That or maybe superhero fatigue is actually starting to happen. I'm more inclined to believe they never should have started in with the multiverse crossover stuff. You use the Multiverse to introduce interdimensional characters who are interdimensional in Marvel Comics, not tacky cameos. They should have put on their big boy pants and committed to what they did at the end of Far From Home and let Peter suffer the consequences of people knowing his identity in the long term instead of taking the coward's way out for the sake of some fanservice. They never would have created the unrealistic expectations which seem to be hurting Multiverse of Madness. It's like Grandmaster and I said: "Self-contained, consistent."
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 1:23:00 GMT 1
You’re not excited for Darth Vader to enter the MCU via the multiverse? The audience would be all “Look! It’s that character from another movie who I loved in that movie I saw him in! Now he’s in this movie… somehow. Nostalgia! Take my money!” Hopefully this gets the message across that people still want a consistent, self-contained universe. If this doesn't scare them into backing off of the tacky Multiverse cameos, nothing will. I’m just glad that Deadpool wasn’t in this. Or Tom Cruise as Iron Man.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 15, 2022 1:25:01 GMT 1
Hopefully this gets the message across that people still want a consistent, self-contained universe. If this doesn't scare them into backing off of the tacky Multiverse cameos, nothing will. I’m just glad that Deadpool wasn’t in this. Or Tom Cruise as Iron Man. I'm just glad Tom Cruise hasn't entered the MCU in ANY role.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 1:29:54 GMT 1
My guess os people hyped themselves into thinking that this film is going to be filled with multiple cameos (like Deadpool for example) and when that didn't happened, they obviously got upset over it. After seeing how successful No Way Home was, maybe Marvel should have done it with Doctor Strange 2. That or maybe superhero fatigue is actually starting to happen. They shouldn’t have had Spider-Man come out first. It set expectations for a big cameo fest. Personally I would’ve gladly sacrificed the Illuminati for more time with Strange and his own variants. That’s where the real story was.
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Post by Chalice_Of_Evil on May 15, 2022 2:18:50 GMT 1
My guess os people hyped themselves into thinking that this film is going to be filled with multiple cameos (like Deadpool for example) and when that didn't happened, they obviously got upset over it. After seeing how successful No Way Home was, maybe Marvel should have done it with Doctor Strange 2. That or maybe superhero fatigue is actually starting to happen. They shouldn’t have had Spider-Man come out first. It set expectations for a big cameo fest. Personally I would’ve gladly sacrificed the Illuminati for more time with Strange and his own variants. That’s where the real story was. And *I* would've exchanged all of the above^ for a proper, well-told story of Wanda turning 'dark'. That, more than anything, was what I consider 'important' and was the reason I came away disappointed by the movie (despite going into it wanting to LOVE it).
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 2:30:18 GMT 1
They shouldn’t have had Spider-Man come out first. It set expectations for a big cameo fest. Personally I would’ve gladly sacrificed the Illuminati for more time with Strange and his own variants. That’s where the real story was. And *I* would've exchanged all of the above^ for a proper, well-told story of Wanda turning 'dark'. That, more than anything, was what I consider 'important' and was the reason I came away disappointed by the movie (despite going into it wanting to LOVE it). I agree 1,000%. The shoddy treatment of Wanda is my only major problem with the movie. It really took me out of it. To the point where I couldn’t even get into the movie on my first viewing. I flat out wish they’d picked a different villain. And trust me, it strangely makes even less sense if you’d watched WandaVision first.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 15, 2022 2:38:11 GMT 1
And *I* would've exchanged all of the above^ for a proper, well-told story of Wanda turning 'dark'. That, more than anything, was what I consider 'important' and was the reason I came away disappointed by the movie (despite going into it wanting to LOVE it). I agree 1,000%. The shoddy treatment of Wanda is my only major problem with the movie. It really took me out of it. To the point where I couldn’t even get into the movie on my first viewing. I flat out wish they’d picked a different villain. And trust me, it strangely makes even less sense if you’d watched WandaVision first. They're sacrificing their character writing for cameos. One of the major points the MCU could always be counted on (nailing the characters), and they dropped it.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 2:43:31 GMT 1
I agree 1,000%. The shoddy treatment of Wanda is my only major problem with the movie. It really took me out of it. To the point where I couldn’t even get into the movie on my first viewing. I flat out wish they’d picked a different villain. And trust me, it strangely makes even less sense if you’d watched WandaVision first. They're sacrificing their character writing for cameos. One of the major points the MCU could always be counted on (nailing the characters), and they dropped it. I enjoyed the writing for Strange though. He had a compelling arc that just needed a tad more development to really land. But yeah, I agree they dropped the ball with Wanda. Just because she randomly goes psycho in the comics doesn’t mean they had to do it here.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 15, 2022 2:50:23 GMT 1
They're sacrificing their character writing for cameos. One of the major points the MCU could always be counted on (nailing the characters), and they dropped it. I enjoyed the writing for Strange though. He had a compelling arc that just needed a tad more development to really land. But yeah, I agree they dropped the ball with Wanda. Just because she randomly goes psycho in the comics doesn’t mean they had to do it here. Kind of like Spider-Man being Pro-Ironman just because comics!Peter Parker was. Granted, they handled that a lot better by making Pete so young and naive at the time, but still. As much as I appreciate that they're *trying* to stray closer to the comics than previous adaptations, they don't need EVERY outcome to match up, and shouldn't.
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Post by Grandmaster on May 15, 2022 9:52:50 GMT 1
Wanda
Got in bed with Hydra (nazi's) Supported a killer robot in attempt at global genocide Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos which lead to the Avengers breaking up, hurting her boyfriend whil doing so Broke out of prison Held a town hostage so she could live her own fantasy life
But her descent into villainy wasnt handled well
Gtfo do you even watch these movies?
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Post by Chalice_Of_Evil on May 15, 2022 10:31:27 GMT 1
Wanda Got in bed with Hydra (nazi's) Supported a killer robot in attempt at global genocide Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos which lead to the Avengers breaking up, hurting her boyfriend whil doing so Broke out of prison Held a town hostage so she could live her own fantasy life But her descent into villainy wasnt handled well Gtfo do you even watch these movies?
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Post by AQUA KEN! on May 15, 2022 12:31:40 GMT 1
I just hope that this doesn't scare Marvel away from doing more horror.
Cameos I can take or leave, but I want more horror stuff.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 18:17:30 GMT 1
Wanda Got in bed with Hydra (nazi's) Supported a killer robot in attempt at global genocide Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos which lead to the Avengers breaking up, hurting her boyfriend whil doing so Broke out of prison Held a town hostage so she could live her own fantasy life But her descent into villainy wasnt handled well Gtfo do you even watch these movies? Do you?! Supported a killer robot’s global genocide? No, she supported destroying The Avengers, when she discovered his real plan she left him and joined them. Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos? You mean accidentally, while trying to save Cap? Broke out of prison? You mean, by Cap? Along with half the Avengers?
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Post by AQUA KEN! on May 15, 2022 18:23:02 GMT 1
Wanda Got in bed with Hydra (nazi's) Supported a killer robot in attempt at global genocide Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos which lead to the Avengers breaking up, hurting her boyfriend whil doing so Broke out of prison Held a town hostage so she could live her own fantasy life But her descent into villainy wasnt handled well Gtfo do you even watch these movies? Do you?! Supported a killer robot’s global genocide? No, she supported destroying The Avengers, when she discovered his real plan she left him and joined them. Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos? You mean accidentally, while trying to save Cap? Broke out of prison? You mean, by Cap? So that makes Cap a villain too, doesn’t it? And Ant Man. 😂 Boom! mic drop!
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 18:30:30 GMT 1
Do you?! Supported a killer robot’s global genocide? No, she supported destroying The Avengers, when she discovered his real plan she left him and joined them. Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos? You mean accidentally, while trying to save Cap? Broke out of prison? You mean, by Cap? So that makes Cap a villain too, doesn’t it? And Ant Man. 😂 Boom! mic drop!
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Post by Lord Death Man on May 15, 2022 19:54:27 GMT 1
A young man is tormented by his mother's violent death and a prophecy concerning the premature passing of his wife. Blinded by pain and grief, he is influenced by a supernatural agency to commit acts of coercion, torture and mass murder.
…becomes the greatest villain this or any other universe has ever known.
A young woman's parents are killed in an artillery strike. She subsequently makes morally questionable choices, which lead to the death of her brother, husband, and children. In her pain and grief, she is influenced by a supernatural agency to commit acts of coercion, torture and mass murder.
…turn to evil completely baffling and somehow can't be reconciled.
'Now that just doesn't seem fair.'
The fuse is lit.
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Post by AQUA KEN! on May 15, 2022 20:04:21 GMT 1
#Releasetheraimicut
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Post by Grandmaster on May 15, 2022 21:40:35 GMT 1
Wanda Got in bed with Hydra (nazi's) Supported a killer robot in attempt at global genocide Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos which lead to the Avengers breaking up, hurting her boyfriend whil doing so Broke out of prison Held a town hostage so she could live her own fantasy life But her descent into villainy wasnt handled well Gtfo do you even watch these movies? Do you?! Supported a killer robot’s global genocide? No, she supported destroying The Avengers, when she discovered his real plan she left him and joined them. Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos? You mean accidentally, while trying to save Cap? Broke out of prison? You mean, by Cap? Along with half the Avengers? Yep that made Cap a villain. Violatedcthe Accords. Ant-man had house arrest because he was a good guy? Accidental deaths that happened because she was too careless She supported destroying The Avengers. Arent they supposed to be the heroes? What would make that someone who wants to destroy them? A hero too? No that would be a villain. My point is Wanda had always been on both sides of the coin. Clearly shown in all that came before. The discourse online that they somehow rushed her becoming a villain or it wasnt supported, shown or explained is really bullshit.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 22:00:50 GMT 1
Do you?! Supported a killer robot’s global genocide? No, she supported destroying The Avengers, when she discovered his real plan she left him and joined them. Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos? You mean accidentally, while trying to save Cap? Broke out of prison? You mean, by Cap? Along with half the Avengers? Yep that made Cap a villain. Violatedcthe Accords. Ant-man had house arrest because he was a good guy? Accidental deaths that happened because she was too careless She supported destroying The Avengers. Arent they supposed to be the heroes? What would make that someone who wants to destroy them? A hero too? No that would be a villain. My point is Wanda had always been on both sides of the coin. Clearly shown in all that came before. The discourse online that they somehow rushed her becoming a villain or it wasnt supported, shown or explained is really bullshit. She started out as a villain, then joined the Avengers. I don’t see any nuance in her portrayal in Civil War to End Game. She was just another Avenger in those movies. If we were meant to see her as morally ambiguous there it must have gone over my head. To say the deaths in Lagos and escape from jail were a foreshadowing of her villainy is an interesting interpretation though. I’ll keep an open mind on that next time I rewatch the saga.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 15, 2022 22:56:18 GMT 1
Do you?! Supported a killer robot’s global genocide? No, she supported destroying The Avengers, when she discovered his real plan she left him and joined them. Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos? You mean accidentally, while trying to save Cap? Broke out of prison? You mean, by Cap? Along with half the Avengers? Yep that made Cap a villain. Violatedcthe Accords. Ant-man had house arrest because he was a good guy? Accidental deaths that happened because she was too careless She supported destroying The Avengers. Arent they supposed to be the heroes? What would make that someone who wants to destroy them? A hero too? No that would be a villain. My point is Wanda had always been on both sides of the coin. Clearly shown in all that came before. The discourse online that they somehow rushed her becoming a villain or it wasnt supported, shown or explained is really bullshit. The Accords were thought up by Ross, who is a villain. No, Cap, was not a villain for violating them. Yes, Ant-Man was put under house arrest for doing the right thing.,
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 15, 2022 22:57:48 GMT 1
Yep that made Cap a villain. Violatedcthe Accords. Ant-man had house arrest because he was a good guy? Accidental deaths that happened because she was too careless She supported destroying The Avengers. Arent they supposed to be the heroes? What would make that someone who wants to destroy them? A hero too? No that would be a villain. My point is Wanda had always been on both sides of the coin. Clearly shown in all that came before. The discourse online that they somehow rushed her becoming a villain or it wasnt supported, shown or explained is really bullshit. She started out as a villain, then joined the Avengers. I don’t see any nuance in her portrayal in Civil War to End Game. She was just another Avenger in those movies. If we were meant to see her as morally ambiguous there it must have gone over my head. To say the deaths in Lagos and escape from jail were a foreshadowing of her villainy is an interesting interpretation though. I’ll keep an open mind on that next time I rewatch the saga. The only reason she even did anything in Lagos was because Cap froze up when Frank Grillo started taunting him about Bucky.
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Post by AQUA KEN! on May 15, 2022 22:57:56 GMT 1
“Just because someone stumbles and loses their path, doesn't mean they're lost forever.”
I'm glad this line was used again by Charles Xavier. Great line from the Days of Future Past film. I'd be fine if they bring back Patrick Stewart as Xavier in the X-Men 97 revival series.
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Post by Lord Death Man on May 15, 2022 23:42:38 GMT 1
Do you?! Supported a killer robot’s global genocide? No, she supported destroying The Avengers, when she discovered his real plan she left him and joined them. Killed a bunch of guys in Lagos? You mean accidentally, while trying to save Cap? Broke out of prison? You mean, by Cap? Along with half the Avengers? Yep that made Cap a villain. Violatedcthe Accords. Ant-man had house arrest because he was a good guy? Accidental deaths that happened because she was too careless She supported destroying The Avengers. Arent they supposed to be the heroes? What would make that someone who wants to destroy them? A hero too? No that would be a villain. My point is Wanda had always been on both sides of the coin. Clearly shown in all that came before. The discourse online that they somehow rushed her becoming a villain or it wasnt supported, shown or explained is really bullshit. I concede that you might be able to say that Wanda's transition to villain in Multiverse of Madness is rushed, but it is not somehow wholly unjustified given her overall arc in the MCU. Sadly, the "rushed" villain transition in MoM falls squarely on Raimi's shoulders. He directed the film, and as much as I enjoy his work, his idea of pacing usually is hit or miss with me. As for the Raimi cut, it doesn't look like Sam had a falling out with the studio, and no other Director was asked to finish his work. All indications from the scoopinati are that the additional footage excised from the film wouldn't make sense in the context of the released version. My guess is the most we can expect is two or three deleted scenes on the home media release. The fan glorification or demonization of Wanda is inconsequential to me. This film's ultimate problem was a name that preceded a script. I expected a multiverse-hopping experience that would leave me questioning whether or not the heroes made it home to the right universe in the end. They fell just short of my expectations, and I admit that it is partially my fault. Expectation is a bitch. I'm already setting myself up for more heartbreak when I look forward to the third installment. I want the Defenders (and not those Defenders) plus the Lovecraftian horror of the Undying Ones.
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Post by Lord Death Man on May 15, 2022 23:56:11 GMT 1
She started out as a villain, then joined the Avengers. I don’t see any nuance in her portrayal in Civil War to End Game. She was just another Avenger in those movies. If we were meant to see her as morally ambiguous there it must have gone over my head. To say the deaths in Lagos and escape from jail were a foreshadowing of her villainy is an interesting interpretation though. I’ll keep an open mind on that next time I rewatch the saga. The only reason she even did anything in Lagos was because Cap froze up when Frank Grillo started taunting him about Bucky. This conversation is made doubly difficult because the MCU blurs the line between heroes, villains and people with different points of view. Wanda holds the distinction of being the MCU's first unrepentant villain. She's purely and unapologetically selfish, and, she's clearly insane - thus putting the madness in MoM. Hate to invoke the "bitches be crazy" trope, but Wanda was willing to murder and maim over imaginary children.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 16, 2022 0:09:24 GMT 1
The only reason she even did anything in Lagos was because Cap froze up when Frank Grillo started taunting him about Bucky. This conversation is made doubly difficult because the MCU blurs the line between heroes, villains and people with different points of view. Wanda holds the distinction of being the MCU's first unrepentant villain. She's purely and unapologetically selfish, and, she's clearly insane - thus putting the madness in MoM. Hate to invoke the "bitches be crazy" trope, but Wanda was willing to murder and maim over imaginary children. No, she doesn't. That's Obediah Stane way back in the very first Ironman film. But she did repent in the end.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 0:10:53 GMT 1
This is perhaps just my personal preference, but I do feel like Wanda would’ve been better served with more solo projects and Dr Strange would’ve been better served with a movie that could focus on his mythos without having to also serve as a Wanda movie. Just my two cents. I don’t think I’ll ever change my mind on that.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on May 16, 2022 0:12:48 GMT 1
This is perhaps just my personal preference, but I do feel like Wanda would’ve been better served with more solo projects and Dr Strange would’ve been better served with a movie that could focus on his mythos without having to also serve as a Wanda movie. Just my two cents. I don’t think I’ll ever change my mind on that. Me, neither. As I believe Chalice_Of_Evil and you have both said, the film could have dropped all the cameos and been better served with all the screen time dedicated to showing us what's up with Strange and Wanda.
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