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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 24, 2022 0:04:32 GMT 1
Also… and I’m just gonna throw this out there… no solid argument can possibly be made that Thor 1-2 are any better than the first WW. Yeah I said it. NOPE!!! Thor 1&2 are far better. Meet me in the ally lolol “Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor.”We're now heading into Love and Thunder and that incantation is still paying dividends. Nothing in Wonder Woman 1 or 2 paid off anything that was hinted at in an even mildly satisfactory way… just one DERP after another.
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Post by Merv on Mar 24, 2022 0:05:31 GMT 1
See I actually really enjoy Man of Steel. I’d probably rather watch it than Wonder Woman…although if I’m being honest I don’t rewatch either that often. I’m a big fan of the Man of Steel villains…as shallow as they are. Particularly Faora. I thought she was easily the most threatening of the bunch and adapted to her newfound abilities far quicker than Zod. So what you will about Man of Steel, for all of its triumph-of-the-will-style imagery and unrelenting bleakness, the film is confident and focused. If Superman had a Dark Knight Returns, Man of Steel - minus all the product placements - would be it. Aside from the writing and general direction of the DCU...the bleak tone is my least favorite aspect. With a character like Batman its fine but Superman, Flash...if they ever threw a Green Lantern in there...these characters are not bleak, drab, and devoid of color or fun. I like Man of Steel in spite of the drabness of it rather than because of it. But they went ahead and doubled down for the rest of the universe. Can you even imagine if Plastic Man were to show up in the recent DC timeline all serious and angry?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 24, 2022 0:31:54 GMT 1
NOPE!!! Thor 1&2 are far better. Meet me in the ally lolol “Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor.”We're now heading into Love and Thunder and that incantation is still paying dividends. Nothing in Wonder Woman 1 or 2 paid off anything that was hinted at in an even mildly satisfactory way… just one DERP after another. think about what Thor did at the end of Thor 1 for a moment. The growth culminating in losing the connection he wants so badly in order to save those he originally wanted nothing for. And he defended others with no power of his own before that. He took those actions. Diana gave up and cried that she couldn’t figure anything out, and then the villain outed himself. Nobody tell me that WW is better than Thor.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2022 2:21:45 GMT 1
Fair enough. It’s not one of my favorite CBMs. I think the majority of its issues come from me just not being a big fan of the character or her mythology. The reliance on Greek mythos just strikes me as lazy and I find the use of Zeus and Ares to be cringey for that reason. Also, Gal is not a good actress. No way around that. But overall I consider it a solid CBM. It’s very charming in an old school Richard Donner sort of way. The team clearly had a deep respect for the character. Chris Pine totally steals it as Steve What’sHisName. And I really can’t imagine a WW origin story doing a better job. I imagine we can at least agree that it was miles better than Man of Steel? See I actually really enjoy Man of Steel. I’d probably rather watch it than Wonder Woman…although if I’m being honest I don’t rewatch either that often. I’m a big fan of the Man of Steel villains…as shallow as they are. Particularly Faora. I thought she was easily the most threatening of the bunch and adapted to her newfound abilities far quicker than Zod. I respect your opinion of course. But MoS to me is, at best, a self serious remake of Superman 1-2. And at worst it’s… well, I won’t go down that road. If you like Faora you should check out Ursa from Superman II- Faora is literally just a complete rip-off of that character. Only much more one dimensional.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2022 2:25:17 GMT 1
“Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor.”We're now heading into Love and Thunder and that incantation is still paying dividends. Nothing in Wonder Woman 1 or 2 paid off anything that was hinted at in an even mildly satisfactory way… just one DERP after another. think about what Thor did at the end of Thor 1 for a moment. The growth culminating in losing the connection he wants so badly in order to save those he originally wanted nothing for. And he defended others with no power of his own before that. He took those actions. Diana gave up and cried that she couldn’t figure anything out, and then the villain outed himself. Nobody tell me that WW is better than Thor. Well, let’s be real though- Thor 2 and it’s reception led to a complete overhaul of the franchise. You know I like Thor 2, but there’s no denying that the series was majorly course corrected in Ragnorockers. To suggest that current Thor is still the same incarnation is not exactly accurate. The WW franchise is mirroring it in a lot of ways: Well received first movie, poorly received second movie. WW was more celebrated than Thor and Thor 2 was less panned than WW84, but still… a similar pattern. WW could rebound like Thor did. Although WB isn’t smart enough to course correct with the third. (Fire Jenkins! Fire Jenkins!)
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 24, 2022 2:33:36 GMT 1
think about what Thor did at the end of Thor 1 for a moment. The growth culminating in losing the connection he wants so badly in order to save those he originally wanted nothing for. And he defended others with no power of his own before that. He took those actions. Diana gave up and cried that she couldn’t figure anything out, and then the villain outed himself. Nobody tell me that WW is better than Thor. Well, let’s be real though- Thor 2 and it’s reception led to a complete overhaul of the franchise. You know I like Thor 2, but there’s no denying that the series was majorly course corrected in Ragnorockers. To suggest that current Thor is still the same incarnation is not exactly accurate. The WW franchise is mirroring it in a lot of ways. Although WB isn’t smart enough to course correct with the third. (Fire Jenkins! Fire Jenkins!) sure. They went a new direction. But Thor 2 still all works. Like it doesn’t have major logic gaps or things that just don’t make any sense. That’s the kind of thing I’m interested in
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2022 2:38:49 GMT 1
Well, let’s be real though- Thor 2 and it’s reception led to a complete overhaul of the franchise. You know I like Thor 2, but there’s no denying that the series was majorly course corrected in Ragnorockers. To suggest that current Thor is still the same incarnation is not exactly accurate. The WW franchise is mirroring it in a lot of ways. Although WB isn’t smart enough to course correct with the third. (Fire Jenkins! Fire Jenkins!) sure. They went a new direction. But Thor 2 still all works. Like it doesn’t have major logic gaps or things that just don’t make any sense. That’s the kind of thing I’m interested in I won’t disagree with that. Thor 2 is perfectly watchable for me. WW84 is not. I’m just saying, both were- according to their respective receptions- in need of a course correction. Thor is now my favorite Avenger. I wouldn’t have said that after Phase One or Two. Could that happen with WW? Very unlikely, but… it’s still theoretically possible if they course correct. But I also don’t hold bad sequels against a franchise’s previous installments. I dislike WW84 but it doesn’t take away from the first movie to me. I wouldn’t be able to enjoy Jaws, Psycho or Jurassic Park if I followed that attitude!
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Post by Merv on Mar 24, 2022 3:29:47 GMT 1
See I actually really enjoy Man of Steel. I’d probably rather watch it than Wonder Woman…although if I’m being honest I don’t rewatch either that often. I’m a big fan of the Man of Steel villains…as shallow as they are. Particularly Faora. I thought she was easily the most threatening of the bunch and adapted to her newfound abilities far quicker than Zod. I respect your opinion of course. But MoS to me is, at best, a self serious remake of Superman 1-2. And at worst it’s… well, I won’t go down that road. If you like Faora you should check out Ursa from Superman II- Faora is literally just a complete rip-off of that character. Only much more one dimensional. Oh i know. Ive seen those first 2 Superman films. I enjoy them for what they are. I didn't really see Faora as a ripoff of Ursa since I assume theyre the same character. I know they have different names but it's the same team dynamic with Zod and co.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 24, 2022 4:04:02 GMT 1
sure. They went a new direction. But Thor 2 still all works. Like it doesn’t have major logic gaps or things that just don’t make any sense. That’s the kind of thing I’m interested in I won’t disagree with that. Thor 2 is perfectly watchable for me. WW84 is not. I’m just saying, both were- according to their respective receptions- in need of a course correction. Thor is now my favorite Avenger. I wouldn’t have said that after Phase One or Two. Could that happen with WW? Very unlikely, but… it’s still theoretically possible if they course correct. But I also don’t hold bad sequels against a franchise’s previous installments. I dislike WW84 but it doesn’t take away from the first movie to me. I wouldn’t be able to enjoy Jaws, Psycho or Jurassic Park if I followed that attitude! oh I agree. So 84 doesn’t take away from WW for me. What it does is validate my assessment that WW wasnt conceived by a team that really knew what they were doing. They got by. If it were a project in art school for instance, as their teacher I would have expected future projects to fall apart because I didn’t see any genuine expertise there. And that’s what we happened with 84. The truly talent I saw revealed itself. WW to me is a student who doesn’t truly get it that made one passable project.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 24, 2022 4:05:40 GMT 1
See I actually really enjoy Man of Steel. I’d probably rather watch it than Wonder Woman…although if I’m being honest I don’t rewatch either that often. I’m a big fan of the Man of Steel villains…as shallow as they are. Particularly Faora. I thought she was easily the most threatening of the bunch and adapted to her newfound abilities far quicker than Zod. I respect your opinion of course. But MoS to me is, at best, a self serious remake of Superman 1-2. And at worst it’s… well, I won’t go down that road. If you like Faora you should check out Ursa from Superman II- Faora is literally just a complete rip-off of that character. Only much more one dimensional. oh Faora is totally Ursa. Ursa was awesome though. Faora just stood there watching the plane crash ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2022 4:18:31 GMT 1
I won’t disagree with that. Thor 2 is perfectly watchable for me. WW84 is not. I’m just saying, both were- according to their respective receptions- in need of a course correction. Thor is now my favorite Avenger. I wouldn’t have said that after Phase One or Two. Could that happen with WW? Very unlikely, but… it’s still theoretically possible if they course correct. But I also don’t hold bad sequels against a franchise’s previous installments. I dislike WW84 but it doesn’t take away from the first movie to me. I wouldn’t be able to enjoy Jaws, Psycho or Jurassic Park if I followed that attitude! oh I agree. So 84 doesn’t take away from WW for me. What it does is validate my assessment that WW wasnt conceived by a team that really knew what they were doing. They got by. If it were a project in art school for instance, as their teacher I would have expected future projects to fall apart because I didn’t see any genuine expertise there. And that’s what we happened with 84. The truly talent I saw revealed itself. WW to me is a student who doesn’t truly get it that made one passable project. My assessment is that the screenwriter for WW was responsible for everything good in the original. Losing him and making Patty and that Geof Johns guy screenwriters was the big mistake. In any case, the franchise is dead to me now. Unless they fire Patty and recast Gal.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2022 4:19:37 GMT 1
I respect your opinion of course. But MoS to me is, at best, a self serious remake of Superman 1-2. And at worst it’s… well, I won’t go down that road. If you like Faora you should check out Ursa from Superman II- Faora is literally just a complete rip-off of that character. Only much more one dimensional. oh Faora is totally Ursa. Ursa was awesome though. Faora just stood there watching the plane crash ;-) Right? Ursa rocks. Faora was a crappy Snyder knock off.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 24, 2022 4:25:20 GMT 1
oh I agree. So 84 doesn’t take away from WW for me. What it does is validate my assessment that WW wasnt conceived by a team that really knew what they were doing. They got by. If it were a project in art school for instance, as their teacher I would have expected future projects to fall apart because I didn’t see any genuine expertise there. And that’s what we happened with 84. The truly talent I saw revealed itself. WW to me is a student who doesn’t truly get it that made one passable project. My assessment is that the screenwriter for WW was responsible for everything good in the original. Losing him and making Patty and that Geof Johns guy screenwriters was the big mistake. In any case, the franchise is dead to me now. Unless they fire Patty and recast Gal. with you again. Except bigger picture. DC is dead to me unless they fire everybody, start completely over, and rehire non sucky people :-)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2022 4:27:41 GMT 1
My assessment is that the screenwriter for WW was responsible for everything good in the original. Losing him and making Patty and that Geof Johns guy screenwriters was the big mistake. In any case, the franchise is dead to me now. Unless they fire Patty and recast Gal. with you again. Except bigger picture. DC is dead to me unless they fire everybody and rehire non sucky people :-) I’ll agree with that concerning the DCEU. No interest in Flash or Aquaman or anything in that universe. The DCEU should be dead and buried once and for all. I’m on board for Reeves’ Batman though 100%…. And any other DC reboots that end up looking good.
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Post by Hans Haferflöcken on Mar 26, 2022 20:16:58 GMT 1
Oof! The fanboys are attacking mine Wünder Wöman! Das ist sehr schlecht! I am meant to be defending her! Der fanboys are dumkompfs, ja?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2022 23:54:04 GMT 1
on miiiiiiles better. Don’t get started. I was just going to say I’m having a bad F DC binge today that’s probably annoying people (SORRY EVERYBODY) Yeah, I’ll defend WW to a point. But Man of Steel is ass on wheels. There is literally nothing redeeming about it. Fuck that movie. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2022 1:35:50 GMT 1
Oof! The fanboys are attacking mine Wünder Wöman! Das ist sehr schlecht! I am meant to be defending her! Der fanboys are dumkompfs, ja? Entshuldigung, mein Herr. GIB WÖNDER FRAU DIE HÖSCHEN MIT DEM STERN!
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 27, 2022 13:41:06 GMT 1
Oof! The fanboys are attacking mine Wünder Wöman! Das ist sehr schlecht! I am meant to be defending her! Der fanboys are dumkompfs, ja? Entshuldigung, mein Herr. GIB WÖNDER FRAU DIE HÖSCHEN MIT DEM STERN! wow wow wow,,, wow
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2022 17:25:27 GMT 1
Entshuldigung, mein Herr. GIB WÖNDER FRAU DIE HÖSCHEN MIT DEM STERN! wow wow wow,,, wow Took a little German in college. That’ll show that Hans fella what for!
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 5, 2022 15:44:29 GMT 1
My new theory. It’s kind of dark, sooooooo sorry? But it also makes sense why they’d cut this out.
So consider the more puzzling ideas we’ve discussed ad nauseam; the random guy they bothered to build an entire apartment set for, the armor’s lack of history or function, and the mention of Dechalafrea Ero as the god of the dream stone who never shows up. I’m going to tie these together.
What if Dechalafrea Ero, the god who made the dream stone but is never seen, was in the film at one point. After all they do bother to research the history of this god and it would parallel nicely with gods living in plain sight from the first film. And the original purpose of the armor was to combat either him or his effects and instead of the armor just showing up in her closet there was a plan to have her search for it after defeating Ares specially for the purpose of combatting gods. And the living embodiment of this god was, you guessed it, the random guy.
And when you think about that for even a moment, you realize it means he lured Diana to get the stone, perhaps for some other purpose, but also raped her under the guise of being Steve. Hence an uncomfortable test screening and the need to cut out any purpose to the armor or importance of the random guy.
It occurred to me that something in this direction would give instant weight to all three of these elements, along with sufficiently justifying the need to cut around whatever made test audiences uncomfortable.
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