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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 8:00:20 GMT 1
It’s the best title since the classic film Indiana Jones and the Jones of India. I truly don’t see how it’s an ounce different than “The Fellowship of the Ring”, and it’s just referring to the creation of the rings of power which tells you what this is about. I think you’re being a little hard on them. And I think people aren’t hard enough on them. If they’re gonna have the audacity to gratuitously milk a beloved IP they better bring their A game.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 1, 2022 12:59:52 GMT 1
I truly don’t see how it’s an ounce different than “The Fellowship of the Ring”, and it’s just referring to the creation of the rings of power which tells you what this is about. I think you’re being a little hard on them. And I think people aren’t hard enough on them. If they’re gonna have the audacity to gratuitously milk a beloved IP they better bring their A game. I’ll be right there with you if they don’t bring that A Game. I’m just not going in all cynical ;-)
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 1, 2022 18:34:43 GMT 1
And I think people aren’t hard enough on them. If they’re gonna have the audacity to gratuitously milk a beloved IP they better bring their A game. I’ll be right there with you if they don’t bring that A Game. I’m just not going in all cynical ;-) But is this really the soda pop ripoff? Let's see… There's existing source material; nothing has to be made up, per se. The Silmarillion is an actual book you can go out and buy and read, today even. I assume it's entertaining and whatnot. The notoriously picky Tolkien Trust/Estate/Cartel has signed off on this and is creatively involved. Amazon bought the thing for $250 M - that doesn't include dollar one of production. The A-Zee then commits to five seasons at a staggering $1 B price tag. Season one has been produced, and season two has been formally approved. This is the hardest flex in the history of any IP I've ever heard of, and the fans are like - "I'm afraid they're going to phone it for the Prime dollars!" LoTR: TRoP is a prestige piece. If this fails, every creative involved will likely be working at a toll booth instead of on anything created by Tolkien. It's not an epic troll to get more Prime subs. Amazon Prime is in 22 different countries with over 200 M members. Every living soul on Earth capable and willing has probably already signed up. A bunch of LOTR larpers isn't going to help move the needle. I think they're going to at least try to make this good.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 19:14:15 GMT 1
And I think people aren’t hard enough on them. If they’re gonna have the audacity to gratuitously milk a beloved IP they better bring their A game. I’ll be right there with you if they don’t bring that A Game. I’m just not going in all cynical ;-) I don’t know. This is Tolkien we’re talking about. Is nothing sacred? They can adapt his original stories as many times as they want, but to have the audacity to write new ones in his world just to blatantly compete with other easily profitable IPs? Maybe I’m cynical, but I have no optimism for that.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 1, 2022 19:25:41 GMT 1
I’ll be right there with you if they don’t bring that A Game. I’m just not going in all cynical ;-) But is this really the soda pop ripoff? Let's see… There's existing source material; nothing has to be made up, per se. The Silmarillion is an actual book you can go out and buy and read, today even. I assume it's entertaining and whatnot. The notoriously picky Tolkien Trust/Estate/Cartel has signed off on this and is creatively involved. Amazon bought the thing for $250 M - that doesn't include dollar one of production. The A-Zee then commits to five seasons at a staggering $1 B price tag. Season one has been produced, and season two has been formally approved. This is the hardest flex in the history of any IP I've ever heard of, and the fans are like - "I'm afraid they're going to phone it for the Prime dollars!" LoTR: TRoP is a prestige piece. If this fails, every creative involved will likely be working at a toll booth instead of on anything created by Tolkien. It's not an epic troll to get more Prime subs. Amazon Prime is in 22 different countries with over 200 M members. Every living soul on Earth capable and willing has probably already signed up. A bunch of LOTR larpers isn't going to help move the needle. I think they're going to at least try to make this good. Thats what I’m saying. I see no reason to get down on it, least of all for a logical title
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 1, 2022 19:26:31 GMT 1
I’ll be right there with you if they don’t bring that A Game. I’m just not going in all cynical ;-) I don’t know. This is Tolkien we’re talking about. Is nothing sacred? They can adapt his original stories as many times as they want, but to have the audacity to write new ones in his world just to blatantly compete with other easily profitable IPs? Maybe I’m cynical, but I have no optimism for that. Its not new though. It seems like most of this is coming out of his other writings and notes. He has a ton of backstory written
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 19:37:49 GMT 1
I don’t know. This is Tolkien we’re talking about. Is nothing sacred? They can adapt his original stories as many times as they want, but to have the audacity to write new ones in his world just to blatantly compete with other easily profitable IPs? Maybe I’m cynical, but I have no optimism for that. Its not new though. It seems like most of this is coming out of his other writings and notes. He has a ton of backstory written Does he though? Similarion is just a bible of lore. There’s great history in it, but there’s also not really a story there. I suppose it’s fair game to adapt it, but they’ll be fleshing out characters and plot basically from scratch. That borders on fanfiction.
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Feb 1, 2022 19:42:54 GMT 1
Its not new though. It seems like most of this is coming out of his other writings and notes. He has a ton of backstory written Does he though? Similarion is just a bible of lore. There’s great history in it, but there’s also not really a story there. I suppose it’s fair game to adapt it, but they’ll be fleshing out characters and plot basically from scratch. That borders on fanfiction. Nah, it doesn't.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 19:45:18 GMT 1
Does he though? Similarion is just a bible of lore. There’s great history in it, but there’s also not really a story there. I suppose it’s fair game to adapt it, but they’ll be fleshing out characters and plot basically from scratch. That borders on fanfiction. Nah, it doesn't. I knew it! I mean… OH!
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 1, 2022 20:34:06 GMT 1
I don’t know. This is Tolkien we’re talking about. Is nothing sacred? They can adapt his original stories as many times as they want, but to have the audacity to write new ones in his world just to blatantly compete with other easily profitable IPs? Maybe I’m cynical, but I have no optimism for that. Its not new though. It seems like most of this is coming out of his other writings and notes. He has a ton of backstory written There's an anecdote from an old zombie movie that I love. A group of survivors barricaded in a mall, populated solely by the undead, break into a gun store. As the group wanders the aisles marveling at the variety of firearms now available to help prosecute their war against the zombie hoard, one of them picks up a top-shelf rifle. While looking down the high-powered scope at a distant target, the man shares the following bit of wisdom. It's entirely possible that Amazon could swing and miss with this series, but I don't think it wouldn't be for the lack of trying. This series is designed to win awards and close the distance between both Disney and Netflix's appointment television series (i.e., Ozark, The Mandalorian, Squid Game, Marvel Streaming, etc.). They need a cultural phenomenon, and they're willing to spend themselves into oblivion to get it. Yes, they will invent characters and fill in the gaps in Tolkien's more sparse narratives. That said, they're doing this under the watchful eye of the Tolkien estate and several noted Tolkien scholars. Jackson, while admittedly hands-off, is also reading scripts. You don't play fast and loose with continuity when it's Tolkien. You might play with temporal compression/expansion or add a character to smooth out the getting from A to B but… One does not simply make up Tolkien as one goes along… This has to be the worst writing job in the history of worst writing jobs. It takes a biometric scan to get into the writer's room.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 1, 2022 20:41:06 GMT 1
Its not new though. It seems like most of this is coming out of his other writings and notes. He has a ton of backstory written Does he though? Similarion is just a bible of lore. There’s great history in it, but there’s also not really a story there. I suppose it’s fair game to adapt it, but they’ll be fleshing out characters and plot basically from scratch. That borders on fanfiction. Well yeah there will be some extrapolation such as dialogue. I’m totally fine with that. I certainly don’t see it as an automatic negative. As far as I can tell they are taking great care in honoring the source material as LDM is noting. I mean if you’re not interested in that, then it’s just a series you should probably ignore, but I’d wager this is probably going to be as good as it could ever be done.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 1, 2022 21:33:17 GMT 1
Does he though? Similarion is just a bible of lore. There’s great history in it, but there’s also not really a story there. I suppose it’s fair game to adapt it, but they’ll be fleshing out characters and plot basically from scratch. That borders on fanfiction. Well yeah there will be some extrapolation such as dialogue. I’m totally fine with that. I certainly don’t see it as an automatic negative. As far as I can tell they are taking great care in honoring the source material as LDM is noting. I mean if you’re not interested in that, then it’s just a series you should probably ignore, but I’d wager this is probably going to be as good as it could ever be done. And the franchise is hurting a bit from prequel fatigue. I don't know how much further you can go back in time before audiences start to feel that the franchise is more about filling in history than advancing the narrative. A LoTR "prequel" is a good fit for streaming.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:05:04 GMT 1
Well yeah there will be some extrapolation such as dialogue. I’m totally fine with that. I certainly don’t see it as an automatic negative. As far as I can tell they are taking great care in honoring the source material as LDM is noting. I mean if you’re not interested in that, then it’s just a series you should probably ignore, but I’d wager this is probably going to be as good as it could ever be done. Everyone wants to be Marvel nowadays. But Marvel actually has tons of actual source material. This series will be based on a few summary passages from Simlarion at best. More than dialogue will be extrapolated. The whole thing will be extrapolated because the Simalarion is not a story, it is basically a Middle Earth history book. Next will no doubt be the series about what happened to Balin at Moria, then the Legolas mini series, the Riders of Rohan series, the Gollum prequel. And hey, maybe that sounds awesome, but at some point it’s just not Tolkien anymore. Can’t we just be happy with the movies we have and move on? Why does it have to be just the original stuff? Cant new material be created? Sure the Disney Star Wars trilogy was a shit show. Although the shows, R1 and Solo (probably in the minority with this last entry lol) were great
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:11:37 GMT 1
Everyone wants to be Marvel nowadays. But Marvel actually has tons of actual source material. This series will be based on a few summary passages from Simlarion at best. More than dialogue will be extrapolated. The whole thing will be extrapolated because the Simalarion is not a story, it is basically a Middle Earth history book. Next will no doubt be the series about what happened to Balin at Moria, then the Legolas mini series, the Riders of Rohan series, the Gollum prequel. And hey, maybe that sounds awesome, but at some point it’s just not Tolkien anymore. Can’t we just be happy with the movies we have and move on? Why does it have to be just the original stuff? Cant new material be created? Sure the Disney Star Wars trilogy was a shit show. Although the shows, R1 and Solo (probably in the minority with this last entry lol) were great It’s just milking an IP in my opinion. I know a lot of Tolkien fans would agree. What he created was special. Why should I care about something new set in the canon he created? To let anyone and everyone play in his world and sell it as though it’s special? And without the source material what defines it? Only familiar iconography and branding? I just don’t see the appeal. Just create something that’s actually new.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:17:45 GMT 1
Why does it have to be just the original stuff? Cant new material be created? Sure the Disney Star Wars trilogy was a shit show. Although the shows, R1 and Solo (probably in the minority with this last entry lol) were great It’s just milking an IP in my opinion. I know a lot of Tolkien fans would agree. What he created was special. Why should I care about something new set in the canon he created? To let anyone and everyone play in his world and sell it as though it’s special? And without the source material what defines it? Only familiar iconography and branding? I just don’t see the appeal. Just create something that’s actually new. Fair enough. Did you like the Hobbit trilogy?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:20:29 GMT 1
It’s just milking an IP in my opinion. I know a lot of Tolkien fans would agree. What he created was special. Why should I care about something new set in the canon he created? To let anyone and everyone play in his world and sell it as though it’s special? And without the source material what defines it? Only familiar iconography and branding? I just don’t see the appeal. Just create something that’s actually new. Fair enough. Did you like the Hobbit trilogy? No. And I think the biggest reason for its failure was trying to expand on the source material and milk it for all its worth. To quote our friend WeirdRaptor: “Just tell the damn story that Tolkien wrote”.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:25:36 GMT 1
Fair enough. Did you like the Hobbit trilogy? No. And I think the biggest reason for its failure was trying to expand on the source material and milk it for all its worth. To quote our friend WeirdRaptor: “Just tell the damn story that Tolkien wrote”. Maybe a failure to you. Although in terms of box office and audience scores - it was a great success. Critic reviews couldve been better though. Personally, I enjoyed the films
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:27:51 GMT 1
No. And I think the biggest reason for its failure was trying to expand on the source material and milk it for all its worth. To quote our friend WeirdRaptor: “Just tell the damn story that Tolkien wrote”. Maybe a failure to you. Although in terms of box office and audience scores - it was a great success. Critic reviews couldve been better though. Personally, I enjoyed the films Fair enough. I enjoyed the parts that actually followed the book: Riddles in the Dark, the first confrontation with Smaug, ect.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 1, 2022 23:30:24 GMT 1
Well yeah there will be some extrapolation such as dialogue. I’m totally fine with that. I certainly don’t see it as an automatic negative. As far as I can tell they are taking great care in honoring the source material as LDM is noting. I mean if you’re not interested in that, then it’s just a series you should probably ignore, but I’d wager this is probably going to be as good as it could ever be done. Everyone wants to be Marvel nowadays. But Marvel actually has tons of actual source material. This series will be based on a few summary passages from Simlarion at best. More than dialogue will be extrapolated. The whole thing will be extrapolated because the Simalarion is not a story, it is basically a Middle Earth history book. Next will no doubt be the series about what happened to Balin at Moria, then the Legolas mini series, the Riders of Rohan series, the Gollum prequel. And hey, maybe that sounds awesome, but at some point it’s just not Tolkien anymore. We saw that mistake already in The Hobbit movies, which were “expanded on” using the appendices. Didn’t work out so well. I don’t see the point in stressing this. They’re basing it on his material and just filling in the gaps. Tolkien fans like myself would love to see a noble attempt at some of the more incomplete material. It’s the only way it could ever be done. If you’re not into it, I get it, but again, why worry about it? Just don’t watch it
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:33:56 GMT 1
Everyone wants to be Marvel nowadays. But Marvel actually has tons of actual source material. This series will be based on a few summary passages from Simlarion at best. More than dialogue will be extrapolated. The whole thing will be extrapolated because the Simalarion is not a story, it is basically a Middle Earth history book. Next will no doubt be the series about what happened to Balin at Moria, then the Legolas mini series, the Riders of Rohan series, the Gollum prequel. And hey, maybe that sounds awesome, but at some point it’s just not Tolkien anymore. We saw that mistake already in The Hobbit movies, which were “expanded on” using the appendices. Didn’t work out so well. I don’t see the point in stressing this. They’re basing it on his material and just filling in the gaps. Tolkien fans like myself would love to see a noble attempt at some of the more incomplete material. It’s the only way it could ever be done. If you’re not into it, I get it, but again, why worry about it? Just don’t watch it Why worry about it? I don’t know. Same reason you guys obsess over WW84, I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:36:00 GMT 1
Maybe a failure to you. Although in terms of box office and audience scores - it was a great success. Critic reviews couldve been better though. Personally, I enjoyed the films Fair enough. I enjoyed the parts that actually followed the book: Riddles in the Dark, the first confrontation with Smaug, ect. Ive only read the original trilogy books once in high school and I wouldnt be able to tell you what's what in the Lord of the Rings films now haha. Yeah the Hobbit was a thin, single book and three movies made so I can see how you would see it that way though
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 1, 2022 23:36:01 GMT 1
Maybe a failure to you. Although in terms of box office and audience scores - it was a great success. Critic reviews couldve been better though. Personally, I enjoyed the films Fair enough. I enjoyed the parts that actually followed the book: Riddles in the Dark, the first confrontation with Smaug, ect. I do agree with the Hobbit films being less than they deserved to be. I’m actually looking at getting a fan edit and I’ve got a few picked out as download candidates.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:39:08 GMT 1
@ghostyghostington will you watch the pilot?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 1, 2022 23:39:45 GMT 1
I don’t see the point in stressing this. They’re basing it on his material and just filling in the gaps. Tolkien fans like myself would love to see a noble attempt at some of the more incomplete material. It’s the only way it could ever be done. If you’re not into it, I get it, but again, why worry about it? Just don’t watch it Why worry about it? I don’t know. Same reason you guys obsess over WW84, I guess. That’s not really the same thing. You’re talking about honest evaluation of a film that has been released vs downplaying an unreleased project simply because it can’t be 100% original source material? I didn’t get on it WW simply because it was being made. There are litany of actual issues.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:45:14 GMT 1
Why worry about it? I don’t know. Same reason you guys obsess over WW84, I guess. That’s not really the same thing. You’re talking about honest evaluation of a film that has been released vs downplaying an unreleased project simply because it can’t be 100% original source material? I didn’t get on it WW simply because it was being made. There are litany of actual issues. It’s still spending a lot of thought on something you don’t like and were never going to like. I wanted to like WW84 and hated it. But I moved on a year ago. I don’t see any reason why I can’t express my thoughts on this series, even if I don’t plan to watch. I enjoy the discussion so far, but this notion that I shouldn’t discuss it all is weak sauce, Archie.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 1, 2022 23:46:03 GMT 1
Everyone wants to be Marvel nowadays. But Marvel actually has tons of actual source material. This series will be based on a few summary passages from Simlarion at best. More than dialogue will be extrapolated. The whole thing will be extrapolated because the Simalarion is not a story, it is basically a Middle Earth history book. Next will no doubt be the series about what happened to Balin at Moria, then the Legolas mini series, the Riders of Rohan series, the Gollum prequel. And hey, maybe that sounds awesome, but at some point it’s just not Tolkien anymore. Can’t we just be happy with the movies we have and move on? Why does it have to be just the original stuff? Cant new material be created? Sure the Disney Star Wars trilogy was a shit show. Although the shows, R1 and Solo (probably in the minority with this last entry lol) were great It doesn't have to be about just the original stuff. I grant you that Tolkein's work is esoteric and somewhat specialized. Still, I don't think it reaches some unimpeachable summit of perfection that can't be reached (or even surpassed). Then again, I am far from a LOTR nerd. I also don't think Marvel Comics should have ended with the death of Jack and or Stan or that Star Trek should have stopped in 91 when Gene died. Any IP can be expanded with vigilant custodians and talented creatives at the helm. We must move away from the fandom demagoguery that original creators are gods.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:47:34 GMT 1
@ghostyghostington will you watch the pilot?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:50:04 GMT 1
Why does it have to be just the original stuff? Cant new material be created? Sure the Disney Star Wars trilogy was a shit show. Although the shows, R1 and Solo (probably in the minority with this last entry lol) were great It doesn't have to be about just the original stuff. I grant you that Tolkein's work is esoteric and somewhat specialized. Still, I don't think it reaches some unimpeachable summit of perfection that can't be reached (or even surpassed). Then again, I am far from a LOTR nerd. I also don't think Marvel Comics should have ended with the death of Jack and or Stan or that Star Trek should have stopped in 91 when Gene died. Any IP can be expanded with vigilant custodians and talented creatives at the helm. We must move away from the fandom demagoguery that original creators are gods. I mean I can understand both povs but at least give it a chance. Can we all agree that Gladiator shouldntve have a sequel?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:51:12 GMT 1
@ghostyghostington will you watch the pilot? OH!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 23:51:50 GMT 1
It doesn't have to be about just the original stuff. I grant you that Tolkein's work is esoteric and somewhat specialized. Still, I don't think it reaches some unimpeachable summit of perfection that can't be reached (or even surpassed). Then again, I am far from a LOTR nerd. I also don't think Marvel Comics should have ended with the death of Jack and or Stan or that Star Trek should have stopped in 91 when Gene died. Any IP can be expanded with vigilant custodians and talented creatives at the helm. We must move away from the fandom demagoguery that original creators are gods. I mean I can understand both povs but at least give it a chance. Can we all agree that Gladiator shouldntve have a sequel? I would totally watch a Gladiator streaming show. Make it happen, ApplePlus!
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