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Post by Grandmaster on Jun 29, 2023 12:49:51 GMT 1
Nicky's been clapping those green cheeks.
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Post by ])-Kyle "Wild Child" Gibney-([ on Jun 29, 2023 13:41:21 GMT 1
Nicky's been clapping those green cheeks. Bahaha
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Post by Merv on Jun 29, 2023 14:08:30 GMT 1
Is there a multiversal plot I’m not picking up on? Edit: oh you mean phase 4/5? Yeah I think phase 4-6 should have been set around the Secret Invasion storyline. A 6 episode mini series is not enough to do it justice. I can understand that. I am always worried 6 episodes isn’t enough. I’m not sold 6 episodes seasons are the best format for tv. It just leaves no room for fat and without the fat a steak tastes dry.
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Post by Merv on Jun 29, 2023 14:13:20 GMT 1
It was also good to see Nick kick some butt in this ep with War Machine's security. Tired of seeing him being weak Agreed. Even in the beginning when Talos is pushing him into the van I caught myself thinking ‘when did Fury become such a pushover?’
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Jun 29, 2023 15:53:22 GMT 1
Is there a multiversal plot I’m not picking up on? Edit: oh you mean phase 4/5? Yeah I think phase 4-6 should have been set around the Secret Invasion storyline. A 6 episode mini series is not enough to do it justice. I disagree. Spending a whole saga constantly trying to guess who's a Skrull and who isn't and with Marvel constantly trying to surprise us, it would become very tiresome for the audience and very complicated for Marvel. 6 eps may or may not be enough, but an entire saga would definately be too much.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 29, 2023 16:41:55 GMT 1
Yeah I think phase 4-6 should have been set around the Secret Invasion storyline. A 6 episode mini series is not enough to do it justice. I disagree. Spending a whole saga constantly trying to guess who's a Skrull and who isn't and with Marvel constantly trying to surprise us, it would become very tiresome for the audience and very complicated for Marvel. 6 eps may or may not be enough, but an entire saga would definately be too much. Exactly. A movie would have been too short, and a phase would have been too long. Six episodes on Disney+ seems about right to me. But if you hate Disney+, that would never be the right answer. Also, a phase dedicated to a "Secret Invasion" spread over years would make it seem like the "invasion" was taking too long. And we know how patient the fans are, right? At its core, Secret Invasion is about enemy infiltrators who have embedded themselves into the establishment. We already told that story with Hydra. All you'd be doing is replacing "Hail Hydra" with the crackle of a Skrull transformation and Insight platforms with Skrull star ships.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 29, 2023 16:44:58 GMT 1
Nicky's been clapping those green cheeks. Reminds me of this exchange from the 80s sci-fi/action masterpiece, Aliens. "Hey, I sure wouldn't mind getting some more of that Arcturian poontang, remember that time?" "Yeah, Frost, but the one that you had was male." "It doesn't matter when it's Arcturian, baby." ―Pvt. Frost and Pvt. Spunkmeyer (from Aliens)
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Post by Merv on Jun 29, 2023 17:46:15 GMT 1
I disagree. Spending a whole saga constantly trying to guess who's a Skrull and who isn't and with Marvel constantly trying to surprise us, it would become very tiresome for the audience and very complicated for Marvel. 6 eps may or may not be enough, but an entire saga would definately be too much. Exactly. A movie would have been too short, and a phase would have been too long. Six episodes on Disney+ seems about right to me. But if you hate Disney+, that would never be the right answer. Also, a phase dedicated to a "Secret Invasion" spread over years would make it seem like the "invasion" was taking too long. And we know how patient the fans are, right? At its core, Secret Invasion is about enemy infiltrators who have embedded themselves into the establishment. We already told that story with Hydra. All you'd be doing is replacing "Hail Hydra" with the crackle of a Skrull transformation and Insight platforms with Skrull star ships. To be fair I think it could’ve kind of worked if we were building up to it. Small scenes here and there showing Skrulls infiltrating organizations, meeting in secret, hatching some plan. All leading to an eventual Skrull hostile takeover attempt movie. I’m not saying that would’ve been the best way to go about it. I’m not passing judgement until the series is done, and so far I’m enjoying it a lot. But I do think it could’ve worked as a single phase looming arc.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 29, 2023 18:17:51 GMT 1
Exactly. A movie would have been too short, and a phase would have been too long. Six episodes on Disney+ seems about right to me. But if you hate Disney+, that would never be the right answer. Also, a phase dedicated to a "Secret Invasion" spread over years would make it seem like the "invasion" was taking too long. And we know how patient the fans are, right? At its core, Secret Invasion is about enemy infiltrators who have embedded themselves into the establishment. We already told that story with Hydra. All you'd be doing is replacing "Hail Hydra" with the crackle of a Skrull transformation and Insight platforms with Skrull star ships. To be fair I think it could’ve kind of worked if we were building up to it. Small scenes here and there showing Skrulls infiltrating organizations, meeting in secret, hatching some plan. All leading to an eventual Skrull hostile takeover attempt movie. I’m not saying that would’ve been the best way to go about it. I’m not passing judgement until the series is done, and so far I’m enjoying it a lot. But I do think it could’ve worked as a single phase looming arc. Maybe… Secret Invasion might have worked throughout a phase as a B story. You could have the A stories running throughout the individual movies, and then at some point in the film, you get a Skrull reveal, and another piece of the conspiracy is revealed. That could all culminate in a single Seceret Invasion film. I don't think there is enough there with Secret Invasion to support a dedicated phase of storytelling, unless you were willing to go into more depth with the subsequent Skrull occupation. Secret Invasion has always just been a cute gimmick for me. I'm sure it would turbocharge fan discourse on social media, but I don't know that it's a story that's years in the making. Besides, I'd rather hang myself than go through the four to five years of wild speculation on who the next Skrull is on twitter. Some variations on the Kree-Skrull war would be more interesting (to me). If Earth is actually occupied and controlled by one of the combatants, that would be an interesting change in the status quo for the MCU.
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Post by Merv on Jun 29, 2023 19:27:23 GMT 1
To be fair I think it could’ve kind of worked if we were building up to it. Small scenes here and there showing Skrulls infiltrating organizations, meeting in secret, hatching some plan. All leading to an eventual Skrull hostile takeover attempt movie. I’m not saying that would’ve been the best way to go about it. I’m not passing judgement until the series is done, and so far I’m enjoying it a lot. But I do think it could’ve worked as a single phase looming arc. Maybe… Secret Invasion might have worked throughout a phase as a B story. You could have the A stories running throughout the individual movies, and then at some point in the film, you get a Skrull reveal, and another piece of the conspiracy is revealed. That could all culminate in a single Seceret Invasion film. I don't think there is enough there with Secret Invasion to support a dedicated phase of storytelling, unless you were willing to go into more depth with the subsequent Skrull occupation. Secret Invasion has always just been a cute gimmick for me. I'm sure it would turbocharge fan discourse on social media, but I don't know that it's a story that's years in the making. Besides, I'd rather hang myself than go through the four to five years of wild speculation on who the next Skrull is on twitter. Some variations on the Kree-Skrull war would be more interesting (to me). If Earth is actually occupied and controlled by one of the combatants, that would be an interesting change in the status quo for the MCU. Well yea. I mean this might be a hot take, I’m not sure, but Thanos and the infinity stones was the B storyline for phases 1-3. Small little mentions in every other film from 2012 to 2016 is all the buildup that storyline really had but it was more than enough. That same level of buildup could’ve worked in phase 4 imo. I do totally understand the hesitance due to the internet speculation.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 29, 2023 20:34:24 GMT 1
Maybe… Secret Invasion might have worked throughout a phase as a B story. You could have the A stories running throughout the individual movies, and then at some point in the film, you get a Skrull reveal, and another piece of the conspiracy is revealed. That could all culminate in a single Seceret Invasion film. I don't think there is enough there with Secret Invasion to support a dedicated phase of storytelling, unless you were willing to go into more depth with the subsequent Skrull occupation. Secret Invasion has always just been a cute gimmick for me. I'm sure it would turbocharge fan discourse on social media, but I don't know that it's a story that's years in the making. Besides, I'd rather hang myself than go through the four to five years of wild speculation on who the next Skrull is on twitter. Some variations on the Kree-Skrull war would be more interesting (to me). If Earth is actually occupied and controlled by one of the combatants, that would be an interesting change in the status quo for the MCU. Well yea. I mean this might be a hot take, I’m not sure, but Thanos and the infinity stones was the B storyline for phases 1-3. Small little mentions in every other film from 2012 to 2016 is all the buildup that storyline really had but it was more than enough. That same level of buildup could’ve worked in phase 4 imo. I do totally understand the hesitance due to the internet speculation. That's not a hot take. You're right about the Infinity saga being the B story of early MCU phases until it was pushed to the forefront in Infinity War and Endgame. I don't think Secret Invasion is an end unto itself. It's more like the means to get to another story - maybe the much better and criminally underrated Dark Reign - it's not the whole story if that makes sense. Phase 4 would have been better received if it had a more clearly defined B story leading to something else.
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Post by Merv on Jun 29, 2023 20:40:08 GMT 1
Well yea. I mean this might be a hot take, I’m not sure, but Thanos and the infinity stones was the B storyline for phases 1-3. Small little mentions in every other film from 2012 to 2016 is all the buildup that storyline really had but it was more than enough. That same level of buildup could’ve worked in phase 4 imo. I do totally understand the hesitance due to the internet speculation. That's not a hot take. You're right about the Infinity saga being the B story of early MCU phases until it was pushed to the forefront in Infinity War and Endgame. I don't think Secret Invasion is an end unto itself. It's more like the means to get to another story - maybe the much better and criminally indebted Dark Reign - it's not the whole story if that makes sense. Phase 4 would have been better received if it had a more clearly defined B story leading to something else. Agreed, about it all. I look forward to a well written Dark Reign.
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Post by Grandmaster on Jul 2, 2023 9:51:51 GMT 1
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Jul 3, 2023 21:28:40 GMT 1
Caught up.
I'd say it's not bad right now. The twist at the end of episode 2 was a bit deflating. Also, Fury is married to a Skrull? And he's married?
I cannot tell if Ross was a Skrull all along or a Skrull was temporarily using Ross' appearance as cover. It could mean the invasion is more in progress than previously thought, which would be confirmed by Talos' admission there's over a million of them.
Is this supposed to be a metaphor about refugees? It seems like the lesson is migrating the illegal way is quicker and more practical than channeling proper institutions, especially when working with folks who grew up with and are employed and rewarded by institutions. Sneaking in beneath the radar is less costly and more likely to succeed, but Fury is right. Though pragmatic from Talos' point of view, it's a grotesque violation of trust, and particularly one against their best ally.
I like the exchange between Rhodes and Fury, even though Rhodes is walking better than I remember. I don't know if it is naivety or manipulation from Fury, but Rhodes is a) not letting him get away with talking himself out of it, and b) blowing apart this idea that shared backgrounds assume shared uses of power once it is obtained. Rhodes is a conformist at work and an individualist at heart; an authoritarian at both. He seems to believe Fury failed so hard by absconding into space that his credibility is lost and symbolically firing him is his comeuppance. I kinda like Deathman's theory about Rhodes wanting Fury's job. This may be what Rhodes needs to be the new Fury.
Also interesting they're using Fury to show his trauma over dying. He died as he lived, saying the word "motherfucker". I appreciate leaning on it for pathos. So many characters would have seen and remembered their deaths and no one's talking about it.
The Skrull group seems like another Flagsmasher group, ideologically bent towards revenge that no one wishes to admit is at least a little deserved because of how desperate and trapped they are. Note that a little deserved doesn't mean justified; just explained. The Skrull leader seems like a dangerous person, but it's the conditions of the Skrulls that give men like him power. All but one fell into line because now it's political to go against the grain of retribution. The resentment turned to fear turned to extremism would have been built up for decades. He played it well.
I'm most curious about G'iah's mother and where that goes. Double-agent? Traitor? Also interested in Olivia Coleman in all this.
RIP: Maria Hill. I'm a fan of characters dying and the gravity that comes with it. Not that I agree with death for shock value; more like I admire not pulling away from killing characters if it gives dramatic punch. Plot armour can wear thin. Hill's been there since the beginning anyway. Killing her was a good move (imo).
If anyone's a Doctor Who fan, the Zygon storyline rings a bell.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 5, 2023 16:54:58 GMT 1
Good episode - possibly my favorite of the three, even though it lacks the kinetic fisticuffs of earlier installments. I'm enjoying the way they fill in the backstory of lost time for Fury. I'm excited for the back half of the show.
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Post by Merv on Jul 5, 2023 21:44:30 GMT 1
Two big questions here…
Is Gaia’h really dead? I don’t think so. Maria Hill dying is one thing but a character as important as Gaiah getting killed halfway in feels shortchanged.
Was that Rhodey on the phone? Sure sounded like Rhodes to me. I listened twice. If that was him and he’s in league with Gravik…tsk tsk.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 5, 2023 21:58:29 GMT 1
Two big questions here… Is Gaia’h really dead? I don’t think so. Maria Hill dying is one thing but a character as important as Gaiah getting killed halfway in feels shortchanged. Was that Rhodey on the phone? Sure sounded like Rhodes to me. I listened twice. If that was him and he’s in league with Gravik…tsk tsk. I don't think she is dead. I think she used the chamber… she's a super now. A single bullet won't stop her. That was Rhodes - which means my haphazard Skrull-of-the-week guess of last week might be correct.
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Post by Merv on Jul 5, 2023 22:23:50 GMT 1
Two big questions here… Is Gaia’h really dead? I don’t think so. Maria Hill dying is one thing but a character as important as Gaiah getting killed halfway in feels shortchanged. Was that Rhodey on the phone? Sure sounded like Rhodes to me. I listened twice. If that was him and he’s in league with Gravik…tsk tsk. I don't think she is dead. I think she used the chamber… she's a super now. A single bullet won't stop her. That was Rhodes - which means my haphazard Skrull-of-the-week guess of last week might be correct. I’m guessing coffee might be a tell at some point. Gravik likes lots of sugar and Fury likes it black. Or maybe that’s just flavorful additions to otherwise normal scenes.
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Post by ])-Kyle "Wild Child" Gibney-([ on Jul 8, 2023 9:51:43 GMT 1
Good episode - possibly my favorite of the three, even though it lacks the kinetic fisticuffs of earlier installments. I'm enjoying the way they fill in the backstory of lost time for Fury. I'm excited for the back half of the show. Not sure how I feel about Talos making Nick's career if that is to be believed anyway. However, Fury didnt really argue against it from what I recall?
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Post by ])-Kyle "Wild Child" Gibney-([ on Jul 8, 2023 9:55:30 GMT 1
Caught up.
I'd say it's not bad right now. The twist at the end of episode 2 was a bit deflating. Also, Fury is married to a Skrull? And he's married?
I cannot tell if Ross was a Skrull all along or a Skrull was temporarily using Ross' appearance as cover. It could mean the invasion is more in progress than previously thought, which would be confirmed by Talos' admission there's over a million of them.
Is this supposed to be a metaphor about refugees? It seems like the lesson is migrating the illegal way is quicker and more practical than channeling proper institutions, especially when working with folks who grew up with and are employed and rewarded by institutions. Sneaking in beneath the radar is less costly and more likely to succeed, but Fury is right. Though pragmatic from Talos' point of view, it's a grotesque violation of trust, and particularly one against their best ally.
I like the exchange between Rhodes and Fury, even though Rhodes is walking better than I remember. I don't know if it is naivety or manipulation from Fury, but Rhodes is a) not letting him get away with talking himself out of it, and b) blowing apart this idea that shared backgrounds assume shared uses of power once it is obtained. Rhodes is a conformist at work and an individualist at heart; an authoritarian at both. He seems to believe Fury failed so hard by absconding into space that his credibility is lost and symbolically firing him is his comeuppance. I kinda like Deathman's theory about Rhodes wanting Fury's job. This may be what Rhodes needs to be the new Fury.
Also interesting they're using Fury to show his trauma over dying. He died as he lived, saying the word "motherfucker". I appreciate leaning on it for pathos. So many characters would have seen and remembered their deaths and no one's talking about it.
The Skrull group seems like another Flagsmasher group, ideologically bent towards revenge that no one wishes to admit is at least a little deserved because of how desperate and trapped they are. Note that a little deserved doesn't mean justified; just explained. The Skrull leader seems like a dangerous person, but it's the conditions of the Skrulls that give men like him power. All but one fell into line because now it's political to go against the grain of retribution. The resentment turned to fear turned to extremism would have been built up for decades. He played it well.
I'm most curious about G'iah's mother and where that goes. Double-agent? Traitor? Also interested in Olivia Coleman in all this.
RIP: Maria Hill. I'm a fan of characters dying and the gravity that comes with it. Not that I agree with death for shock value; more like I admire not pulling away from killing characters if it gives dramatic punch. Plot armour can wear thin. Hill's been there since the beginning anyway. Killing her was a good move (imo).
If anyone's a Doctor Who fan, the Zygon storyline rings a bell.
Huh? So globalism and democrats are the villains again?
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Jul 8, 2023 17:19:38 GMT 1
Caught up.
I'd say it's not bad right now. The twist at the end of episode 2 was a bit deflating. Also, Fury is married to a Skrull? And he's married?
I cannot tell if Ross was a Skrull all along or a Skrull was temporarily using Ross' appearance as cover. It could mean the invasion is more in progress than previously thought, which would be confirmed by Talos' admission there's over a million of them.
Is this supposed to be a metaphor about refugees? It seems like the lesson is migrating the illegal way is quicker and more practical than channeling proper institutions, especially when working with folks who grew up with and are employed and rewarded by institutions. Sneaking in beneath the radar is less costly and more likely to succeed, but Fury is right. Though pragmatic from Talos' point of view, it's a grotesque violation of trust, and particularly one against their best ally.
I like the exchange between Rhodes and Fury, even though Rhodes is walking better than I remember. I don't know if it is naivety or manipulation from Fury, but Rhodes is a) not letting him get away with talking himself out of it, and b) blowing apart this idea that shared backgrounds assume shared uses of power once it is obtained. Rhodes is a conformist at work and an individualist at heart; an authoritarian at both. He seems to believe Fury failed so hard by absconding into space that his credibility is lost and symbolically firing him is his comeuppance. I kinda like Deathman's theory about Rhodes wanting Fury's job. This may be what Rhodes needs to be the new Fury.
Also interesting they're using Fury to show his trauma over dying. He died as he lived, saying the word "motherfucker". I appreciate leaning on it for pathos. So many characters would have seen and remembered their deaths and no one's talking about it.
The Skrull group seems like another Flagsmasher group, ideologically bent towards revenge that no one wishes to admit is at least a little deserved because of how desperate and trapped they are. Note that a little deserved doesn't mean justified; just explained. The Skrull leader seems like a dangerous person, but it's the conditions of the Skrulls that give men like him power. All but one fell into line because now it's political to go against the grain of retribution. The resentment turned to fear turned to extremism would have been built up for decades. He played it well.
I'm most curious about G'iah's mother and where that goes. Double-agent? Traitor? Also interested in Olivia Coleman in all this.
RIP: Maria Hill. I'm a fan of characters dying and the gravity that comes with it. Not that I agree with death for shock value; more like I admire not pulling away from killing characters if it gives dramatic punch. Plot armour can wear thin. Hill's been there since the beginning anyway. Killing her was a good move (imo).
If anyone's a Doctor Who fan, the Zygon storyline rings a bell.
Huh? So globalism and democrats are the villains again? I'd say radicalized refugees. Gravic's the big bad, but who (if anyone) is pulling his strings is anybody's guess.
Not sure if I made it clear from the other board but I'm not American. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats is how they govern their own people. Geopolitically they're about the same. Locally is another story.
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Post by ])-Kyle "Wild Child" Gibney-([ on Jul 9, 2023 5:57:24 GMT 1
Huh? So globalism and democrats are the villains again? I'd say radicalized refugees. Gravic's the big bad, but who (if anyone) is pulling his strings is anybody's guess.
Not sure if I made it clear from the other board but I'm not American. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats is how they govern their own people. Geopolitically they're about the same. Locally is another story.
I know you're Canadian. I just like poking fun at that aspect in the shows at times
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Post by Grandmaster on Jul 9, 2023 10:48:40 GMT 1
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Post by Grandmaster on Jul 14, 2023 4:58:56 GMT 1
I have thoughts. And they are not positive.
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Post by Merv on Jul 14, 2023 5:23:23 GMT 1
I have thoughts. And they are not positive. Lol I can’t wait to hear em
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 14, 2023 6:28:51 GMT 1
I think its official that this show missed the mark in terms of living up to its premise, but it's interesting in other ways.
Decent episode, with a few nice surprises but nothing mind blowing.
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Post by ])-Kyle "Wild Child" Gibney-([ on Jul 14, 2023 10:53:22 GMT 1
I think its official that this show missed the mark in terms of living up to its premise, but it's interesting in other ways. Decent episode, with a few nice surprises but nothing mind blowing. Cant say Im digging the portrayal of Fury in this either
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Post by LokisMom on Jul 14, 2023 11:44:22 GMT 1
I have thoughts. And they are not positive.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 14, 2023 15:11:31 GMT 1
I think its official that this show missed the mark in terms of living up to its premise, but it's interesting in other ways. Decent episode, with a few nice surprises but nothing mind blowing. Cant say Im digging the portrayal of Fury in this either I can understand that. Fury is the Batman of the MCU, he should be one step ahead of the Skrulls, but he's constantly behind the eight ball in this series. I've been waiting for his big chess move, but it's all checkers here. This portrayal reads like another deconstruction of a fan-favorite character, which I'm not entirely opposed to, but I can see how fans like yourself could find it too jarring. Being this far into Nick's domestic life is weird. The last thing I wanted to watch him do was cook breakfast.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Jul 14, 2023 17:33:47 GMT 1
Cant say Im digging the portrayal of Fury in this either I can understand that. Fury is the Batman of the MCU, he should be one step ahead of the Skrulls, but he's constantly behind the eight ball in this series. I've been waiting for his big chess move, but it's all checkers here. This portrayal reads like another deconstruction of a fan-favorite character, which I'm not entirely opposed to, but I can see how fans like yourself could find it too jarring. Being this far into Nick's domestic life is weird. The last thing I wanted to watch him do was cook breakfast. He could be like Roger Murtaugh from Lethal Weapon and just getting too old for this shit. Even in MCU terms it's 5 years sorta past whatever year it was in Endgame. Actually this is where I get confused. In theory Endgame takes place 5 years after Infinity War. Fury as a character has gotta be pushing late 60's early 70's. It's disappointing in a way cause I agree, you half-expect Fury to drop down like a reverse virus and fix everything, like Batman, but for a man his age he's not doing so bad. For a man his age being the operative term. Even if he didn't age during the snap we're looking at 11 years since the battle of New York, 16 if you count the snap. He's not exactly a house cat who shouldn't be out but he did have a desk job for a lot of years I think. He's a badass in spurts only, at least physically.
It is weird being in his domestic space. That's probably the thing I found most jarring, and I'm sure he's a dope cook but I don't wanna watch him cook breakfast either. Agreed with the chess not checkers part too. It either means his strategic skills are getting rusty or he's just being plum outplayed by superior opponents.
I suppose my point is it makes a depressing amount of sense that he's always playing catch-up hockey lately. It's too unsurprising under the circumstances, plus he doesn't have SHIELD anymore. At this moment I'm on the fence about him making it out of this series alive.
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