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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 6, 2020 22:11:58 GMT 1
With Sony moving their Spider-Verse into the TV landscape with Silk, it would appear that Sony's "rights" to the character go far beyond what anyone had previously speculated.
With each passing year, Sony extends the character into new media channels as if Disney were practically invisible. Disney frequently finds itself begging to use its own character and clenching its teeth as Sony extends its influence into video games and comic books.
It was popularly understood that Sony's rights only extended to film and merchandising. Late last year, it was confirmed that they also hold television and streaming rights. They also hold the rights to make animated features (greater than 40 minutes in length). They also hold a considerable stake in Spider-Man video games, deciding on developers and platform exclusivity for the character.
The list of solely Marvel-controlled Spider-Man rights is depressingly scant.
Merchandising Rights Animated features under 30 minutes Comic Book publications Video Games (although Marvel's lack of infrastructure in this area effectively yields full control to Sony)
Marvel has become the maintenance worker or custodian of its own IP.
And I say to you, what is the point of that?
How would you feel if Spider-Man were removed from the Marvel Universe entirely? I hate to be overly dramatic or hyperbolic but, it's kind of coming down to that. Why not let Sony take full control of the character in their own separate Spider-Verse free from Marvel oversight and branding? Hell, they could go ahead and publish their own Sony-branded Spider-man comic books too. (Although with the influence of that medium waning with each passing second, it might not even be worth it).
It's not an ideal outcome for Disney, but it does have its advantages. They could forgo the periodic legal battles that come with time-sharing the character. Merchandising and video games could become passive revenue for Disney.
Or, Sony could just buy Marvel out. Their entire Studio business model is dependent on making films about the character anyway, so why not invest in owning Spider-Man outright?
This may sound heretical if you're a Marvel fan, but the way Sony is handling things right now, it would be better if they just had total control over the character.
There is precedence in the comic book world for situations like this, namely Captain Marvel's decades-long tenure as a "DC character" with no real connection to the DC Universe.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2020 22:38:38 GMT 1
I think Tom Holland's Spider-Man is leaving the MCU after the third MCU Spider-Man film and the fifth, final Avengers film. So I don't think he's going to be Disney's problem for much longer, anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2020 0:54:44 GMT 1
Im fine with Spidey as it is. Look Sony has the rights. No one forced Marvel to make a deal. They both get something out of it. Further, it's not like Marvel has a shortage of characters lol. They have both f4 and x-men now. The Disney Marvel movies are performing spectacularly too
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 7, 2020 1:15:54 GMT 1
If we get through a full trilogy plus the other appearances he’s had, then they’ve got plenty to do without him. That’s the great thing about Marvel is that they’ve never been dependent on any one character. Of course I was never as hype as some on him; Cap, Wolverine, Punisher, Daredevil, Surfer, Nova, and the Guardians we’re more my speed, so I’m not prone to want him as much as some.
That said, I’d rather watch Tom Holland spend 20 years and 9 solo films growing up in the MCU. I personally don’t care what Sony is doing. I’m quite happy to ignore their films and games if need be, but if it’s a big problem to what Marvel is doing with the character, then I can be happy with paragraph 1. I hope he stays though.
PS - I’m personally not worried about the periodic negotiations. I didn’t think for a second they were taking him away last time. Sony wants the MCU, the MCU wants Spidey, so it’s an absolute guarantee they’ll work it out.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 7, 2020 1:22:04 GMT 1
I think Tom Holland's Spider-Man is leaving the MCU after the third MCU Spider-Man film and the fifth, final Avengers film. So I don't think he's going to be Disney's problem for much longer, anyway. Yes, and after that, Disney and Sony should end their collaboration. They are effectively competitors now. More so than the DCEU and the MCU. I don't think Sony's current leadership has a handle on starting or maintaining a cinematic universe, but they seem committed. They've got both Fox and WB as object lessons in laziness and avarice. They may change up the players if that's what it takes to even partially succeed.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 7, 2020 1:42:38 GMT 1
I think Tom Holland's Spider-Man is leaving the MCU after the third MCU Spider-Man film and the fifth, final Avengers film. So I don't think he's going to be Disney's problem for much longer, anyway. Yes, and after that, Disney and Sony should end their collaboration. They are effectively competitors now. More so than the DCEU and the MCU. I don't think Sony's current leadership has a handle on starting or maintaining a cinematic universe, but they seem committed. They've got both Fox and WB as object lessons in laziness and avarice. They may change up the players if that's what it takes to even partially succeed. My take on it is that unless Sony movies are constant big box office, they won’t even think about losing the rub they get off the MCU. So it all depends on if Marvel feels they're benefitting enough with Spidey.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2020 2:36:05 GMT 1
I think Tom Holland's Spider-Man is leaving the MCU after the third MCU Spider-Man film and the fifth, final Avengers film. So I don't think he's going to be Disney's problem for much longer, anyway. Yes, and after that, Disney and Sony should end their collaboration. They are effectively competitors now. More so than the DCEU and the MCU. I don't think Sony's current leadership has a handle on starting or maintaining a cinematic universe, but they seem committed. They've got both Fox and WB as object lessons in laziness and avarice. They may change up the players if that's what it takes to even partially succeed. But since it's Tom Rothman, they'll have learned nothing.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 7, 2020 2:42:37 GMT 1
If we get through a full trilogy plus the other appearances he’s had, then they’ve got plenty to do without him. That’s the great thing about Marvel is that they’ve never been dependent on any one character. Of course I was never as hype as some on him; Cap, Wolverine, Punisher, Daredevil, Surfer, Nova, and the Guardians we’re more my speed, so I’m not prone to want him as much as some. That said, I’d rather watch Tom Holland spend 20 years and 9 solo films growing up in the MCU. I personally don’t care what Sony is doing. I’m quite happy to ignore their films and games if need be, but if it’s a big problem to what Marvel is doing with the character, then I can be happy with paragraph 1. I hope he stays though. PS - I’m personally not worried about the periodic negotiations. I didn’t think for a second they were taking him away last time. Sony wants the MCU, the MCU wants Spidey, so it’s an absolute guarantee they’ll work it out. I don’t think Disney gets much out of these Sony deals at all - other than helping to maintain loyalty to the MCU brand. Regardless of whether you Earn 5% or 50% of the profits, it means very little if you did ALL OF THE WORK to produce the film in the first place. Pascal is/was the only useful executive at Sony, helping to make Marvel/Disney Spider-Man films. People say Disney doesn’t do anything for the fans, but the Spider-Man films are so annoying and unprofitable to produce from the Disney point of view as to be nothing more than elaborate write-offs. Making Spider-Man films, for Disney, is almost entirely done to appease fans.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 7, 2020 2:50:21 GMT 1
Yes, and after that, Disney and Sony should end their collaboration. They are effectively competitors now. More so than the DCEU and the MCU. I don't think Sony's current leadership has a handle on starting or maintaining a cinematic universe, but they seem committed. They've got both Fox and WB as object lessons in laziness and avarice. They may change up the players if that's what it takes to even partially succeed. My take on it is that unless Sony movies are constant big box office, they won’t even think about losing the rub they get off the MCU. So it all depends on if Marvel feels they're benefitting enough with Spidey. You’re right but, next time, what if it’s Disney that doesn’t want to come back to the table? There is no way I can imagine Bob C. carving out anything close to an equitable Deal with Rothman. What would be in it for Disney after the trilogy is over? The answer is nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2020 2:55:47 GMT 1
My take on it is that unless Sony movies are constant big box office, they won’t even think about losing the rub they get off the MCU. So it all depends on if Marvel feels they're benefitting enough with Spidey. You’re right but, next time, what if it’s Disney that doesn’t want to come back to the table? There is no way I can imagine Bob C. carving out anything close to an equitable Deal with Rothman. What would be in it for Disney after the trilogy is over? The answer is nothing. I think they've actually planned for the eventuality. I mean, the first two MCU Spider-Man films base themselves so hard in MCU-lore, you can't separate the two. They made the MCU Spider-Man so deeply connected to Tony Stark and The Avengers, fans aren't going to like it when Sony tries to pull him. I think they've assured they have a huge bargaining chip for the long-haul.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 7, 2020 3:09:36 GMT 1
You’re right but, next time, what if it’s Disney that doesn’t want to come back to the table? There is no way I can imagine Bob C. carving out anything close to an equitable Deal with Rothman. What would be in it for Disney after the trilogy is over? The answer is nothing. I think they've actually planned for the eventuality. I mean, the first two MCU Spider-Man films base themselves so hard in MCU-lore, you can't separate the two. They made the MCU Spider-Man so deeply connected to Tony Stark and The Avengers, fans aren't going to like it when Sony tries to pull him. I think they've assured they have a huge bargaining chip for the long-haul. I have three predictions. There won’t be any further Disney/Marvel coproduction after this third film in the current trilogy. Tom Holland will walk away from the role as soon as he is legally able to do so. Sony will produce a new series of Spider-Man films almost immediately after this trilogy ends.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2020 3:14:41 GMT 1
I think they've actually planned for the eventuality. I mean, the first two MCU Spider-Man films base themselves so hard in MCU-lore, you can't separate the two. They made the MCU Spider-Man so deeply connected to Tony Stark and The Avengers, fans aren't going to like it when Sony tries to pull him. I think they've assured they have a huge bargaining chip for the long-haul. I have three predictions. There won’t be any further Disney/Marvel coproduction after this third film in the current trilogy. Tom Holland will walk away from the role as soon as he is legally able to do so. Sony will produce a new series of Spider-Man films almost immediately after this trilogy ends. They will try. Considering they have even worse leadership than back when they tried making "The Amazing Spider-Man" series, the viability of a Sony-only Spider-Man will be questionable.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 2:15:08 GMT 1
I'm not the biggest fan of his solo movies so far. They're among my personal least favorites in the MCU. That said, seeing as how he's a younger character it would've been nice to see him continue to play a role in the larger franchise. I was especially looking forward to seeing him develop a friendship with Johnny Storm, which is pretty high on my fanboy wish list- to see Spidey interact with the F4 would've been great to see.
Overall it won't really be that big of a loss to me though. The question is how will they explain his sudden disappearance?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 2:18:40 GMT 1
Also, I'm not sure how we can automatically assume that Holland won't just make movies for Sony? He doesn't exactly have a great career outside of the character and they'll surely offer him a fuck ton of money. Don't be so sure...
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Sept 9, 2020 2:42:58 GMT 1
Also, I'm not sure how we can automatically assume that Holland won't just make movies for Sony? He doesn't exactly have a great career outside of the character and they'll surely offer him a fuck ton of money. Don't be so sure... No, I assume he will, and I think they are also assuming that? ( I don't want to speak for them )
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 12:57:51 GMT 1
I'm not the biggest fan of his solo movies so far. They're among my personal least favorites in the MCU. That said, seeing as how he's a younger character it would've been nice to see him continue to play a role in the larger franchise. I was especially looking forward to seeing him develop a friendship with Johnny Storm, which is pretty high on my fanboy wish list- to see Spidey interact with the F4 would've been great to see. Overall it won't really be that big of a loss to me though. The question is how will they explain his sudden disappearance? Yes give us the Spidey and Johnny bromance!!!@#@#!!#@!!!!
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 9, 2020 21:26:53 GMT 1
Also, I'm not sure how we can automatically assume that Holland won't just make movies for Sony? He doesn't exactly have a great career outside of the character and they'll surely offer him a fuck ton of money. Don't be so sure... No, I assume he will, and I think they are also assuming that? ( I don't want to speak for them ) His management team is acutely aware of the fact that he can't play Spider-Man forever. He's already involved - in a starring role - in several non-Spider-Man projects, including Far Cry, The Devil All The Time, Chaos Walking, Cherry, and others. That sounds like someone who isn't banking on playing Spider-Man until he needs a walker. Holland was also reportedly deeply distressed when Sony and Disney came to an impasse during their negotiations. At best, I think he may re-up for a team-up film of some kind after the Marvel collaboration is over, but another trilogy would be stretch. Honestly, if Sony and Disney walk away from the table next time, I think Holland will leave the role at his earliest opportunity. And then there's the fan-relations aspect of the situation. What actor would want to be on the wrong side of a total split between Disney and Sony on Spider-Man? The “Disney-First“ contingent is likely to revile you for as long as you continue to play the character. It would be easier to move on after a handful of well-received movies and let some other sucker deal with the backlash in a post-Disney Spider-Man reality. Holland wants to be liked - he's not a Bale or a Pattison.
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Sept 10, 2020 16:35:54 GMT 1
"Peter Parker is a character we see [ in the comic books ] as a 15-year-old boy, and then as a 35-year-old man. So I have an idea of what I'd like to do, and I've pitched it and it's already been taken into the boardroom. It would be really cool if it pans out, because it means I would be Spider-Man for a very long time."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2020 13:24:46 GMT 1
"Peter Parker is a character we see [ in the comic books ] as a 15-year-old boy, and then as a 35-year-old man. So I have an idea of what I'd like to do, and I've pitched it and it's already been taken into the boardroom. It would be really cool if it pans out, because it means I would be Spider-Man for a very long time." Ooohh I like this
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Sept 12, 2020 16:35:18 GMT 1
From the perspective of a fanboy? Yes
But realistically it's probably not worth it unless Sony and Disney worked out a deal that equally benefited each other financially. But I don't see that happening due to corporate greed.
All I know is that when Spider-man does leave the MCU won't be whole again.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 13, 2020 7:23:41 GMT 1
I think the MCU will be fine without Spider-Man, and vice versa. The bottom line is that the current situation between Disney and Sony is untenable in the long run. That's not really up for debate. Eventually, there will be a final confrontation that alienates the two companies from each other permanently. I think Disney is attempting to prepare itself for a day when they no longer have creative access to Spider-Man. In turn, Sony is preparing to expand the character into his own Spider-Universe.
I'm curious to know if Sony has the power to create new characters on their own. They have over 900 to draw from the Marvel library, but the vast majority are throw-always. If they could introduce their own heroes into the Spider-Man universe, they could start to have something similar to the Marvel universe.
It may seem far fetched now, but it could be Sony that ends up buying Spider-Man from Disney in the future. They've invested a lot into the property, and he's the cornerstone of their film business.
I'd rather the character be a part of the Marvel Universe, but if that's not possible, I support Disney trying to make some of their lesser-known characters into icons. It just makes sense at this point, and it's completely doable.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 5:05:42 GMT 1
I just found out that Holland is starring as Drake in an Uncharted movie. LOL. Talk about being miscast. And when are video game movies ever good anyway? His career is gonna take a huge hit with that one. He better hang on to Spidey like his life depends on it!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 11:51:19 GMT 1
I just found out that Holland is starring as Drake in an Uncharted movie. LOL. Talk about being miscast. And when are video game movies ever good anyway? His career is gonna take a huge hit with that one. He better hang on to Spidey like his life depends on it! Apparently it's a prequel movie, so the boyish look is fine I guess. The new Tomb Raider is great btw. I know ArArArchStanton has my back
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Sept 22, 2020 16:53:10 GMT 1
I just found out that Holland is starring as Drake in an Uncharted movie. LOL. Talk about being miscast. And when are video game movies ever good anyway? His career is gonna take a huge hit with that one. He better hang on to Spidey like his life depends on it! Apparently it's a prequel movie, so the boyish look is fine I guess. The new Tomb Raider is great btw. I know ArArArchStanton has my back The new Tomb Raider was a fantastic start, a fantastic origin. I want more of that series so bad, and if you haven't seen it, please get out and support it. It's what video game movies should be.
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