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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 20:42:05 GMT 1
Thats a realistic outcome given they seem to be pushing hard with multiverses this last year with Doctor Stranges next movie, multi-Spidermen and now this reality crossovers in WandaV. Yeah, the multiverse is going to factor into the next phase of McU movies in a big way. There’s no denying it. What do you think of my idea that mutants come from an alternate Earth, get trapped here permanently, then form the X Men? It would be the perfect way to explain why they were absent for the last fifty movies in the McU. I'll get on board as soon as you can answer this line of questioning: If the X-Men HAVE to be Multiverse aliens, then I don't see how it's even possible to have them go on all the weirder adventures from the comics and have it actually matter. If Scott Summers isn't from the MCU Earth, then what is he to the Starjammers if he's not the son of their leader? And if the Starammers aren't from the MCU universe, either, then what's the purpose in having them since the empire they're rebelling against is in a different universe? And that's just a couple of examples of how this will completely undermine any emotional impact a huge number of their adventures would otherwise have if they were native to the main MCU Earth. What are they to the Hellfire Club? Why would the Hellfire Club even exist in the MCU universe if there are no Mutants? What are they to Wanda Maximoff? What is Storm to The Shadow Lord and the African tribe in Kenya? What are they to anyone or anything in the main MCU setting if they're not from there? How will even be possible for there to be multiple, warring factions of them if they're just a random group of individuals who popped in through a portal? Things like The Brotherhood and the Morlocks take time become a thing, and no amount of Multiverse shortcuts will change that. You seeing where I'm going with this?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 20:45:06 GMT 1
Yeah, the multiverse is going to factor into the next phase of McU movies in a big way. There’s no denying it. What do you think of my idea that mutants come from an alternate Earth, get trapped here permanently, then form the X Men? It would be the perfect way to explain why they were absent for the last fifty movies in the McU. I'll get on board as soon as you can answer this line of questioning: If the X-Men HAVE to be Multiverse aliens, then I don't see how it's even possible to have them go on all the weirder adventures from the comics and have it actually matter. If Scott Summers isn't from the MCU Earth, then what is he to the Starjammers if he's not the son of their leader? And if the Starammers aren't from the MCU universe, either, then what's the purpose in having them since the empire they're rebelling against is in a different universe? And that's just a couple of examples of how this will completely undermine any emotional impact a huge number of their adventures would otherwise have if they were native to the main MCU Earth. What are they to the Hellfire Club? Why would the Hellfire Club even exist in the MCU universe if there are no Mutants? What are they to Wanda Maximoff? What is Storm to The Shadow Lord and the African tribe in Kenya? What are they to anyone or anything in the main MCU setting if they're not from there? How will even be possible for there to be multiple, warring factions of them if they're just a random group of individuals who popped in through a portal? Things like The Brotherhood and the Morlocks take time become a thing, and no amount of Multiverse shortcuts will change that. You seeing where I'm going with this? Not really. Where are you going with this?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 20:46:50 GMT 1
I'll get on board as soon as you can answer this line of questioning: If the X-Men HAVE to be Multiverse aliens, then I don't see how it's even possible to have them go on all the weirder adventures from the comics and have it actually matter. If Scott Summers isn't from the MCU Earth, then what is he to the Starjammers if he's not the son of their leader? And if the Starammers aren't from the MCU universe, either, then what's the purpose in having them since the empire they're rebelling against is in a different universe? And that's just a couple of examples of how this will completely undermine any emotional impact a huge number of their adventures would otherwise have if they were native to the main MCU Earth. What are they to the Hellfire Club? Why would the Hellfire Club even exist in the MCU universe if there are no Mutants? What are they to Wanda Maximoff? What is Storm to The Shadow Lord and the African tribe in Kenya? What are they to anyone or anything in the main MCU setting if they're not from there? How will even be possible for there to be multiple, warring factions of them if they're just a random group of individuals who popped in through a portal? Things like The Brotherhood and the Morlocks take time become a thing, and no amount of Multiverse shortcuts will change that. You seeing where I'm going with this? Not really. Where are you going with this? Answer even one and you'll see.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 20:48:02 GMT 1
Not really. Where are you going with this? Answer even one and you'll see. Sounds pretty ominous. I sense a TRAP. Taking evasive action in 5, 4, 3, 2...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2021 20:52:21 GMT 1
Answer even one and you'll see. Sounds pretty ominous. I sense a TRAP. Taking evasive action in 5, 4, 3, 2... So you're on a discussion board, discussing the pros and cons of using the Multiverse to introduce the X-Men, and you're unwilling to discuss a big con someone has brought up? Are my concerns really so unworthy of being discussed?
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Post by charzhino on Feb 9, 2021 22:41:25 GMT 1
Thats a realistic outcome given they seem to be pushing hard with multiverses this last year with Doctor Stranges next movie, multi-Spidermen and now this reality crossovers in WandaV. Yeah, the multiverse is going to factor into the next phase of McU movies in a big way. There’s no denying it. What do you think of my idea that mutants come from an alternate Earth, get trapped here permanently, then form the X Men? It would be the perfect way to explain why they were absent for the last fifty movies in the McU. If they are going to go with the angle that Xmen have always been here during the world events of the MCU then that idea is probably the best way to explain it. But youll have to expand on how they got trapped and why they are going to be free very soon. Its much better than the most popular concept I keep hearing that Xavier has mind blocked mutants for 30 years. But as arch said before using alternate earths presents more problems to explain why Xmen ended up on our particular MCU earth and not any of the other million.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 10, 2021 0:22:26 GMT 1
Yeah, the multiverse is going to factor into the next phase of McU movies in a big way. There’s no denying it. What do you think of my idea that mutants come from an alternate Earth, get trapped here permanently, then form the X Men? It would be the perfect way to explain why they were absent for the last fifty movies in the McU. If they are going to go with the angle that Xmen have always been here during the world events of the MCU then that idea is probably the best way to explain it. But youll have to expand on how they got trapped and why they are going to be free very soon. Its much better than the most popular concept I keep hearing that Xavier has mind blocked mutants for 30 years. But as arch said before using alternate earths presents more problems to explain why Xmen ended up on our particular MCU earth and not any of the other million. My stance is that if the only reason to do the multiverse thing is so you can avoid the continuity questions, then that’s not a good reason to do it. In the other I get those questions will be hard and a Xavier mind wipe may be unsatisfactory. But whatever they choose, it needs to lead to why the world is the way it is, and not just an easy way out. Because if they start using the idea of a multiverse to have stuff show up whenever they want when there’s no other reason it would be there, that becomes a problem for the entire franchise.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 10, 2021 0:28:22 GMT 1
I think the question of “why didn’t they get involved in world events” could be mute. If there aren’t very many of them, and if their goal is to hide, then they wouldn’t be in positions to help, because they’d be trying to stay out of word affairs. By the time something happened they might have otherwise wanted to help with, they’d be out of the loop, and I think that’s fine. Whenever a question comes up about why didn’t a character show up in a certain situation, we should be assuming they are occupied with other priorities that we haven’t seen.
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Feb 10, 2021 1:08:09 GMT 1
Well apparently according to Shuri, Wanda and Pietro are Mutants.
What a twist!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 3:49:35 GMT 1
Well apparently according to Shuri, Wanda and Pietro are Mutants. What a twist! Wait... what?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 21:36:06 GMT 1
Well apparently according to Shuri, Wanda and Pietro are Mutants. What a twist! Yeah I had a theory on that re incorporating mutants into the mcu that way
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 21:51:20 GMT 1
Well apparently according to Shuri, Wanda and Pietro are Mutants. What a twist! Wait... what? I think this information came from some kind of booklet Haunted talked about a while back.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 3:30:03 GMT 1
I was worried that they’d retcon Wanda into a mutant. I know she is supposed to be one, but they already committed to her not being one. I hate forced retcon, especially when it pertains to rights issues. It reminds me of Quantum becoming Spectre.
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Post by Grandmaster on Feb 11, 2021 5:14:19 GMT 1
I was worried that they’d retcon Wanda into a mutant. I know she is supposed to be one, but they already committed to her not being one. I hate forced retcon, especially when it pertains to rights issues. It reminds me of Quantum becoming Spectre. It all depends on how they will do it, doesnt it? Dont dismiss something beforehand. Thats exactly whats wrong with the fandom these days.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 6:13:03 GMT 1
I was worried that they’d retcon Wanda into a mutant. I know she is supposed to be one, but they already committed to her not being one. I hate forced retcon, especially when it pertains to rights issues. It reminds me of Quantum becoming Spectre. It all depends on how they will do it, doesnt it? Dont dismiss something beforehand. Thats exactly whats wrong with the fandom these days. Surely I’m not the only one in this thread guilty of that.
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Post by Grandmaster on Feb 11, 2021 6:34:46 GMT 1
It all depends on how they will do it, doesnt it? Dont dismiss something beforehand. Thats exactly whats wrong with the fandom these days. Surely I’m not the only one in this thread guilty of that. Oh certainly not.
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Post by charzhino on Feb 11, 2021 12:03:46 GMT 1
I was worried that they’d retcon Wanda into a mutant. I know she is supposed to be one, but they already committed to her not being one. I hate forced retcon, especially when it pertains to rights issues. It reminds me of Quantum becoming Spectre. I dont think theyve commited to her not being a mutant and if they reverted, it wouldnt really be a retcon. The lingo used after she appeared was enhanced human or something, brought on by the mind gem. The only reason they couldnt say mutant then because it was a trademarked term only to be used by Fox in context to X-men IP. If now they can explain that the mind gem triggered a mutation inside Wanda and Pietro, that wouldnt be too contrived or unnatural.
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Post by Grandmaster on Feb 11, 2021 12:11:16 GMT 1
I was worried that they’d retcon Wanda into a mutant. I know she is supposed to be one, but they already committed to her not being one. I hate forced retcon, especially when it pertains to rights issues. It reminds me of Quantum becoming Spectre. I dont think theyve commited to her not being a mutant and if they reverted, it wouldnt really be a retcon. The lingo used after she appeared was enhanced human or something, brought on by the mind gem. The only reason they couldnt say mutant then because it was a trademarked term only to be used by Fox in context to X-men IP. If now they can explain that the mind gem triggered a mutation inside Wanda and Pietro, that wouldnt be too contrived or unnatural. Damn what happened? I seem to agree with you a lot these days. Ah well. I guess thats a good thing.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 11, 2021 14:30:46 GMT 1
I was worried that they’d retcon Wanda into a mutant. I know she is supposed to be one, but they already committed to her not being one. I hate forced retcon, especially when it pertains to rights issues. It reminds me of Quantum becoming Spectre. I dont think theyve commited to her not being a mutant and if they reverted, it wouldnt really be a retcon. The lingo used after she appeared was enhanced human or something, brought on by the mind gem. The only reason they couldnt say mutant then because it was a trademarked term only to be used by Fox in context to X-men IP. If now they can explain that the mind gem triggered a mutation inside Wanda and Pietro, that wouldnt be too contrived or unnatural. I agree. Learning what really happened to her in that way would seem perfectly reasonable.
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Feb 11, 2021 14:40:08 GMT 1
Well apparently according to Shuri, Wanda and Pietro are Mutants. What a twist! Wait... what? So last year there was a book released from Marvel called "Wakanda Files". Basically it's filled with researcher notes, theories and other interesting goodies written by Shuri. There's a part in the book where Shuri talks about Wanda and Pietro experimentation by Hydra and the birth of the powers. It's believe that the Mindstone awoken something in their DNA and the result was their powers. Or at least that's what Shuri believes. The book is in universe and is believed to be cannon.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 20:16:05 GMT 1
I was worried that they’d retcon Wanda into a mutant. I know she is supposed to be one, but they already committed to her not being one. I hate forced retcon, especially when it pertains to rights issues. It reminds me of Quantum becoming Spectre. I dont think theyve commited to her not being a mutant and if they reverted, it wouldnt really be a retcon. The lingo used after she appeared was enhanced human or something, brought on by the mind gem. The only reason they couldnt say mutant then because it was a trademarked term only to be used by Fox in context to X-men IP. If now they can explain that the mind gem triggered a mutation inside Wanda and Pietro, that wouldnt be too contrived or unnatural. Yeah, I suppose so. But like ten movies later they explain this? Maybe if the world doesn’t learn what mutants are until then it makes sense. But then you gotta go down the rabbit hole of what exactly triggers the mutation. And do all mutants require this. If so, why not? Then you gotta have Wanda reevaluate who she is yet again. I don’t know. If they do I’ll take it, I guess. But if it were me I’d just leave it alone.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 20:16:54 GMT 1
I dont think theyve commited to her not being a mutant and if they reverted, it wouldnt really be a retcon. The lingo used after she appeared was enhanced human or something, brought on by the mind gem. The only reason they couldnt say mutant then because it was a trademarked term only to be used by Fox in context to X-men IP. If now they can explain that the mind gem triggered a mutation inside Wanda and Pietro, that wouldnt be too contrived or unnatural. Damn what happened? I seem to agree with you a lot these days. Ah well. I guess thats a good thing. Yeah, Charzy is alright. I always got along with him on v2. It’s good to have him here.
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Post by charzhino on Feb 11, 2021 23:08:58 GMT 1
Yeah, I suppose so. But like ten movies later they explain this? Maybe if the world doesn’t learn what mutants are until then it makes sense. But then you gotta go down the rabbit hole of what exactly triggers the mutation. And do all mutants require this. If so, why not? Then you gotta have Wanda reevaluate who she is yet again. I don’t know. If they do I’ll take it, I guess. But if it were me I’d just leave it alone. It actually plays nicely into everything. Lets not forget she is nothing like other human avengers who rely on either technology, serums or magic to utilise their powers. Her abilities are almost supernatural relatively speaking and are still not fully determined. As hauntedknite said there's an explanation that Shuri believes the mind gem radiation triggered some DNA in Wanda. If they can say this was the X gene being activated by 1 infinity gem, then the same could be said after Thanos' snap which unleashed infinitely more radiation that has caused global activations in the people with dormant X genes. Thats how mutants can suddenly start to exist when they werent around since Ironman 1. And they can only say it was the X gene when many more mutants start to manifest and they start to dig into the biology. Until then, Wanda is considered an isolated experiment with unspecified origins.
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Feb 11, 2021 23:27:12 GMT 1
I dont think theyve commited to her not being a mutant and if they reverted, it wouldnt really be a retcon. The lingo used after she appeared was enhanced human or something, brought on by the mind gem. The only reason they couldnt say mutant then because it was a trademarked term only to be used by Fox in context to X-men IP. If now they can explain that the mind gem triggered a mutation inside Wanda and Pietro, that wouldnt be too contrived or unnatural. Yeah, I suppose so. But like ten movies later they explain this? Maybe if the world doesn’t learn what mutants are until then it makes sense. But then you gotta go down the rabbit hole of what exactly triggers the mutation. And do all mutants require this. If so, why not? Then you gotta have Wanda reevaluate who she is yet again. I don’t know. If they do I’ll take it, I guess. But if it were me I’d just leave it alone. I think the whole idea of an "in universe" retcon being done because of changes in "real world" legal rights is pretty fucking hilarious.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2021 1:42:44 GMT 1
Yeah, I suppose so. But like ten movies later they explain this? Maybe if the world doesn’t learn what mutants are until then it makes sense. But then you gotta go down the rabbit hole of what exactly triggers the mutation. And do all mutants require this. If so, why not? Then you gotta have Wanda reevaluate who she is yet again. I don’t know. If they do I’ll take it, I guess. But if it were me I’d just leave it alone. It actually plays nicely into everything. Lets not forget she is nothing like other human avengers who rely on either technology, serums or magic to utilise their powers. Her abilities are almost supernatural relatively speaking and are still not fully determined. As hauntedknite said there's an explanation that Shuri believes the mind gem radiation triggered some DNA in Wanda. If they can say this was the X gene being activated by 1 infinity gem, then the same could be said after Thanos' snap which unleashed infinitely more radiation that has caused global activations in the people with dormant X genes. Thats how mutants can suddenly start to exist when they werent around since Ironman 1. And they can only say it was the X gene when many more mutants start to manifest and they start to dig into the biology. Until then, Wanda is considered an isolated experiment with unspecified origins. That could work. But then the X Men have no history. You can’t have a century old Wolverine or a wise Professor X. I don’t really see this option as being any less convenient as the multiverse one honestly.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2021 1:43:32 GMT 1
Yeah, I suppose so. But like ten movies later they explain this? Maybe if the world doesn’t learn what mutants are until then it makes sense. But then you gotta go down the rabbit hole of what exactly triggers the mutation. And do all mutants require this. If so, why not? Then you gotta have Wanda reevaluate who she is yet again. I don’t know. If they do I’ll take it, I guess. But if it were me I’d just leave it alone. I think the whole idea of an "in universe" retcon being done because of changes in "real world" legal rights is pretty fucking hilarious. I KNOW RIGHT?!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2021 2:29:33 GMT 1
It actually plays nicely into everything. Lets not forget she is nothing like other human avengers who rely on either technology, serums or magic to utilise their powers. Her abilities are almost supernatural relatively speaking and are still not fully determined. As hauntedknite said there's an explanation that Shuri believes the mind gem radiation triggered some DNA in Wanda. If they can say this was the X gene being activated by 1 infinity gem, then the same could be said after Thanos' snap which unleashed infinitely more radiation that has caused global activations in the people with dormant X genes. Thats how mutants can suddenly start to exist when they werent around since Ironman 1. And they can only say it was the X gene when many more mutants start to manifest and they start to dig into the biology. Until then, Wanda is considered an isolated experiment with unspecified origins. That could work. But then the X Men have no history. You can’t have a century old Wolverine or a wise Professor X. I don’t really see this option as being any less convenient as the multiverse one honestly. At least if they do it this way, all the Mutants are in the same reality as all the characters connected to them in their backstories, instead of all those characters being locked away in another dimension, never to be used. There is no ideal answer to introducing the X-Men, but the Multiverse one is especially, because if they're from the Multiverse, then they have no outside connections once in the MCU main setting. No Thieves' Guild in the Bayou for Gambit to interact with, no Project X or anything for Wolverine to interact, because then the MCU Canada isn't his Canada.
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Post by charzhino on Feb 12, 2021 12:59:15 GMT 1
That could work. But then the X Men have no history. You can’t have a century old Wolverine or a wise Professor X. I don’t really see this option as being any less convenient as the multiverse one honestly. As I said on another forum, there would be a handful of mutants that have always been around for centuries, mainly the slow aging ones like Wolverine, Sabertooth, Apocalypse, Selene. Theyve just been in hiding, off the grid or in Apocalypses case; suspended animation. Better approach to hide a few mutants in the MCU world rather than every mutant ever. Prof X has his mutation trigger immediately after Thanos' snap in 2017, giving him 6-7 years to grasp the mutant phenomenon and set up his school for the gifted because he can forsee an explosion in mutant population coming. If we're expecting the first MCU Xmen movie in 2023-2024 then that gives him enough time. I agree though it wouldn't make him as wise with knowledge and experience as Patrik Stewarts version who had had a decades long origin from his young version McAvoy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2021 19:29:52 GMT 1
That could work. But then the X Men have no history. You can’t have a century old Wolverine or a wise Professor X. I don’t really see this option as being any less convenient as the multiverse one honestly. As I said on another forum, there would be a handful of mutants that have always been around for centuries, mainly the slow aging ones like Wolverine, Sabertooth, Apocalypse, Selene. Theyve just been in hiding, off the grid or in Apocalypses case; suspended animation. Better approach to hide a few mutants in the MCU world rather than every mutant ever. Prof X has his mutation trigger immediately after Thanos' snap in 2017, giving him 6-7 years to grasp the mutant phenomenon and set up his school for the gifted because he can forsee an explosion in mutant population coming. If we're expecting the first MCU Xmen movie in 2023-2024 then that gives him enough time. I agree though it wouldn't make him as wise with knowledge and experience as Patrik Stewarts version who had had a decades long origin from his young version McAvoy. That could work.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 13, 2021 3:12:01 GMT 1
That could work. But then the X Men have no history. You can’t have a century old Wolverine or a wise Professor X. I don’t really see this option as being any less convenient as the multiverse one honestly. As I said on another forum, there would be a handful of mutants that have always been around for centuries, mainly the slow aging ones like Wolverine, Sabertooth, Apocalypse, Selene. Theyve just been in hiding, off the grid or in Apocalypses case; suspended animation. Better approach to hide a few mutants in the MCU world rather than every mutant ever. Prof X has his mutation trigger immediately after Thanos' snap in 2017, giving him 6-7 years to grasp the mutant phenomenon and set up his school for the gifted because he can forsee an explosion in mutant population coming. If we're expecting the first MCU Xmen movie in 2023-2024 then that gives him enough time. I agree though it wouldn't make him as wise with knowledge and experience as Patrik Stewarts version who had had a decades long origin from his young version McAvoy. This is a good balance I think. Personally, something many would reject but that I think is the actual best answer, is to start mutants now with Charles and Eric’s origin taking place in modern day and more and more mutants popping up. Maybe a handful of ancient ones existing prior to now but very few. This avoids any of the questions, and makes sense, we’d just have to accept modern origins. That means something different than Magneto as a Holocaust victim etc. people will scream, but IMO it’s what should happen.
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