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Post by AQUA KEN! on Feb 15, 2021 22:55:07 GMT 1
Absolutely! Even the controversy over Superman killing Zod was stupid. It depends but if you mean the neck snap, that’s just flat out thoughtless writing. Here’s the core reason people talk about it. An ending should be relevant to the plot. Everything should lead up to it. It should have thematic significance. Hanz Gruber fell to his death because the setting was a tall building. Belloq was killed by the ark because that was core mcguffin. Frodo and Gollum had to face the final will of the Ring, Superman himself sent the original Zod back to the Phantom Zone, etc etc. But the neck snap means nothing. It’s just a random ending. It’s not set up. It doesn’t pay off any theme. It’s like he got all the way to filming the actual scene without thinking about how to end the fight. That’s basically been the problem with most of their films. Things just happen for no thematic purpose. I can understand the writing criticism, but Superman killing Zod shouldn't be controversial. Zod was too dangerous to be left alive, so Superman killing him was justified. The no kill rule is stupid to me, especially with Batman.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 3:15:44 GMT 1
Absolutely! Even the controversy over Superman killing Zod was stupid. It depends but if you mean the neck snap, that’s just flat out thoughtless writing. Here’s the core reason people talk about it. An ending should be relevant to the plot. Everything should lead up to it. It should have thematic significance. Hanz Gruber fell to his death because the setting was a tall building. Belloq was killed by the ark because that was core mcguffin. Frodo and Gollum had to face the final will of the Ring, Superman himself sent the original Zod back to the Phantom Zone, etc etc. But the neck snap means nothing. It’s just a random ending. It’s not set up. It doesn’t pay off any theme. It’s like he got all the way to filming the actual scene without thinking about how to end the fight. That’s basically been the problem with most of their films. Things just happen for no thematic purpose. OK,what would you have had Superman do? He was fighting someone as powerful as himself plus Zod was psycho. That is a hell of a combo. He was about to kill that family and if left alive would of wiped out all the humans. What Superman did was justified. It is not like after he was jumping for joy,it affected him and set up what kind of hero he wants to be in the future. I have no problem with a no kill rule if they are like Batman and not adverse to beating the holy crap out of the villains they fight. Sometimes exceptions must be made when killing is your last resort. No way Zod was going to hug it out with Superman and they were going to be bro's. He was seriously crazy at that point. No one wants there superheros to be perfect. That is highly annoying when you can not relate to someone,superhero or not. You can not feel or sympathize with someone who never stumbles and falls. Which is why Batman is my #1 favorite hero with this version of Superman being a close second as far as DC goes. I like my heroes a little warped
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 16, 2021 3:23:25 GMT 1
It depends but if you mean the neck snap, that’s just flat out thoughtless writing. Here’s the core reason people talk about it. An ending should be relevant to the plot. Everything should lead up to it. It should have thematic significance. Hanz Gruber fell to his death because the setting was a tall building. Belloq was killed by the ark because that was core mcguffin. Frodo and Gollum had to face the final will of the Ring, Superman himself sent the original Zod back to the Phantom Zone, etc etc. But the neck snap means nothing. It’s just a random ending. It’s not set up. It doesn’t pay off any theme. It’s like he got all the way to filming the actual scene without thinking about how to end the fight. That’s basically been the problem with most of their films. Things just happen for no thematic purpose. OK,what would you have had Superman do? He was fighting someone as powerful as himself plus Zod was psycho. That is a hell of a combo. He was about to kill that family and if left alive would of wiped out all the humans. What Superman did was justified. It is not like after he was jumping for joy,it affected him and set up what kind of hero he wants to be in the future. I have no problem with a no kill rule if they are like Batman and not adverse to beating the holy crap out of the villains they fight. Sometimes exceptions must be made when killing is your last resort. No way Zod was going to hug it out with Superman and they were going to be bro's. He was seriously crazy at that point. No one wants there superheros to be perfect. That is highly annoying when you can not relate to someone,superhero or not. You can not feel or sympathize with someone who never stumbles and falls. Which is why Batman is my #1 favorite hero with this version of Superman being a close second as far as DC goes. I like my heroes a little warped I would have rewritten the entire movie. The issue is bigger than if it technically makes sense for him to break his neck. Sure, it makes sense. The problem is that it has nothing to do with the narrative that’s been built. It’s not a payoff to his arc. It doesn’t mirror a previous action or evolve from some specific plot element. It’s just a random ending. Even if it technically makes sense, it doesn’t mean anything. The entire film is like that. It needs a rewrite so bad.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 3:26:08 GMT 1
OK,what would you have had Superman do? He was fighting someone as powerful as himself plus Zod was psycho. That is a hell of a combo. He was about to kill that family and if left alive would of wiped out all the humans. What Superman did was justified. It is not like after he was jumping for joy,it affected him and set up what kind of hero he wants to be in the future. I have no problem with a no kill rule if they are like Batman and not adverse to beating the holy crap out of the villains they fight. Sometimes exceptions must be made when killing is your last resort. No way Zod was going to hug it out with Superman and they were going to be bro's. He was seriously crazy at that point. No one wants there superheros to be perfect. That is highly annoying when you can not relate to someone,superhero or not. You can not feel or sympathize with someone who never stumbles and falls. Which is why Batman is my #1 favorite hero with this version of Superman being a close second as far as DC goes. I like my heroes a little warped I would have rewritten the entire movie. The issue is bigger than if it technically makes sense for him to break his neck. Sure, it makes sense. The problem is that it has nothing to do with the narrative that’s been built. It’s not a payoff to his arc. It doesn’t mirror a previous action or evolve from some specific plot element. It’s just a random ending. Even if it technically makes sense, it doesn’t mean anything. The entire film is like that. It needs a rewrite so bad. *bangs my head against the wall* 😂 😛 This was an origins film. Thru the whole film we see Superman struggling with his anger and his desire to be something more. That whole fight was it in visual form. He was begging and pleading with Zod to go a different path. It all built up to that moment he had to do the unthinkable. After he becomes the Superman all the fan boys love. He wont kill again. I think you need to rewatch the movie lmao His arc very much came full circle.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 16, 2021 3:59:33 GMT 1
Anna IMO that’s being extremely generous. A more appropriate ending for instance, would have been throwing Zod into the world engine to destroy it and stop what was going on. That would fit the the narrative. Trying to say the neck snap somehow speaks to his struggle throughout the film, and it’s some definitive moment of his character evolution is really just trying to put meaning to something that isn’t organic to the film.
Think of the ending of Thor for instance. Destroying the rainbow bridge to save the frost giants, people he hated, while sacrificing his route back to the people he loves. The bridge itself mirrors the lesson of his hammer being both a weapon or a tool to build. That’s a fitting ending. It’s layered. It’s purposeful. It’s well crafted. A neck snap is just a neck snap. If the idea is to pay off his struggle there’s more creative ways to do that. This is one of the least meaningful endings possible.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 4:32:30 GMT 1
Anna IMO that’s being extremely generous. A more appropriate ending for instance, would have been throwing Zod into the world engine to destroy it and stop what was going on. That would fit the the narrative. Trying to say the neck snap somehow speaks to his struggle throughout the film, and it’s some definitive moment of his character evolution is really just trying to put meaning to something that isn’t organic to the film. Think of the ending of Thor for instance. Destroying the rainbow bridge to save the frost giants, people he hated, while sacrificing his route back to the people he loves. The bridge itself mirrors the lesson of his hammer being both a weapon or a tool to build. That’s a fitting ending. It’s layered. It’s purposeful. It’s well crafted. A neck snap is just a neck snap. If the idea is to pay off his struggle there’s more creative ways to do that. This is one of the least meaningful endings possible. I loved the movie and you didn't but that is OK. I am not saying MOS was perfect but it was entertaining and had some great moments. I thought it was a step in the right direction for DC to compete with Marvel. Than came the films after and all hopes were dashed on that account. I need to shut up before I go off on the films after 😂 I am sorry you did not enjoy it as much but that's cool
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 16, 2021 4:37:56 GMT 1
Anna IMO that’s being extremely generous. A more appropriate ending for instance, would have been throwing Zod into the world engine to destroy it and stop what was going on. That would fit the the narrative. Trying to say the neck snap somehow speaks to his struggle throughout the film, and it’s some definitive moment of his character evolution is really just trying to put meaning to something that isn’t organic to the film. Think of the ending of Thor for instance. Destroying the rainbow bridge to save the frost giants, people he hated, while sacrificing his route back to the people he loves. The bridge itself mirrors the lesson of his hammer being both a weapon or a tool to build. That’s a fitting ending. It’s layered. It’s purposeful. It’s well crafted. A neck snap is just a neck snap. If the idea is to pay off his struggle there’s more creative ways to do that. This is one of the least meaningful endings possible. I loved the movie and you didn't but that is OK. I am not saying MOS was perfect but it was entertaining and had some great moments. I thought it was a step in the right direction for DC to compete with Marvel. Than came the films after and all hopes were dashed on that account. I need to shut up before I go off on the films after 😂 I am sorry you did not enjoy it as much but that's cool If you happened to watch our first 2 DC episodes on the podcast so far, when I said “the writing was on the wall” about why the DCEU struggled so much after, MOS was one of the films I meant. It’s perfectly ok to like it, but there are serious fundamental structural issues going on that left the entire franchise in trouble. The reason theyve had so many problems, is because they keep using these incomplete scripts and that’s what MOS was. IMO. It’s not a surprise to me that the rest of the franchise has struggled, because that’s the promise MOS made.
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Post by AQUA SALZ! on Feb 17, 2021 4:03:14 GMT 1
While I prefer traditional boy-scout Superman, my main problem with Man of Steel is less that Snyder gave us gritty serious Superman and more that the filmmaking just isn’t interesting. It’s bland, shaky-cam, CGI-drenched modern action movie stuff, which bores me every time.
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Post by Indiana Jones on May 24, 2023 16:40:25 GMT 1
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