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Post by AQUA CAT! on Dec 8, 2023 18:23:41 GMT 1
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Post by Merv on Dec 9, 2023 17:05:41 GMT 1
For what its worth I think Mysterio is a bit underrated as an MCU villain. Not that he's immensely powerful or anything but he's got a great design and cool af.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Dec 9, 2023 21:50:42 GMT 1
For what its worth I think Mysterio is a bit underrated as an MCU villain. Not that he's immensely powerful or anything but he's got a great design and cool af. I liked him too. It was strange because you know he's a villain. It's just a matter of waiting for the other boot to drop and how. It was one of the more interesting movies to watch because it took it pretty far. Gylenhaal I think made Mysterio pass for believable superhero material. I guess it's a testament to the in-film charade.
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Post by LokisMom on Dec 11, 2023 8:31:16 GMT 1
Loki didn’t sacrifice himself as he is still alive.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Dec 11, 2023 20:36:08 GMT 1
Loki didn’t sacrifice himself as he is still alive. I don't think death is required. He knowingly resigned himself to a spot he can never leave for the greater good. I'd say that's a sacrifice.
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Post by LokisMom on Dec 12, 2023 6:13:59 GMT 1
Loki didn’t sacrifice himself as he is still alive. I don't think death is required. He knowingly resigned himself to a spot he can never leave for the greater good. I'd say that's a sacrifice. Where in the narrative does it say he can never leave it? Sylvia says, he’s buying us some time, indicating this is a temporary fix. Gee, you guys sure do want to get rid of this character and/or actor. I think I know why.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Dec 12, 2023 8:15:15 GMT 1
I don't think death is required. He knowingly resigned himself to a spot he can never leave for the greater good. I'd say that's a sacrifice. Where in the narrative does it say he can never leave it? Sylvia says, he’s buying us some time, indicating this is a temporary fix. Gee, you guys sure do want to get rid of this character and/or actor. I think I know why. I don't want to get rid of him. My interpretation of how it ended is inserted himself into a situation as some sort of engine part/conductor to keep the machinery of time in tact. Far as I can tell he's there until someone or something takes his place, but my impression is as long as he's in it he'll always be alive.
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Post by LokisMom on Dec 12, 2023 20:48:44 GMT 1
Where in the narrative does it say he can never leave it? Sylvia says, he’s buying us some time, indicating this is a temporary fix. Gee, you guys sure do want to get rid of this character and/or actor. I think I know why. I don't want to get rid of him. My interpretation of how it ended is inserted himself into a situation as some sort of engine part/conductor to keep the machinery of time in tact. Far as I can tell he's there until someone or something takes his place, but my impression is as long as he's in it he'll always be alive. So it possible he will leave it when Loki decides.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Dec 12, 2023 22:05:01 GMT 1
Where in the narrative does it say he can never leave it? Sylvia says, he’s buying us some time, indicating this is a temporary fix. Gee, you guys sure do want to get rid of this character and/or actor. I think I know why. I don't want to get rid of him. My interpretation of how it ended is inserted himself into a situation as some sort of engine part/conductor to keep the machinery of time in tact. Far as I can tell he's there until someone or something takes his place, but my impression is as long as he's in it he'll always be alive. Well said. This isn't about getting rid of anyone; it's about knowing when to quit. If the character never returns, there is no chance for artistic decline. I don't want to see Loki come back for the sake of coming back, only to preside over a mediocre or, even worse, an altogether terrible story that undermines the near-immaculate work on season two. Loki should do what the Beatles did and go out on top. Season two gave us one of the most satisfying completions to a superhero character arc in the entire genre (comparable to Iron Man and Captain America). Loki was LITERALLY immortalized in time. Why would we give that up? For half a chuckle at his next gig as someone's sideman?
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Dec 12, 2023 22:24:29 GMT 1
I don't want to get rid of him. My interpretation of how it ended is inserted himself into a situation as some sort of engine part/conductor to keep the machinery of time in tact. Far as I can tell he's there until someone or something takes his place, but my impression is as long as he's in it he'll always be alive. Well said. This isn't about getting rid of anyone; it's about knowing when to quit. If the character never returns, there is no chance for artistic decline. I don't want to see Loki come back for the sake of coming back, only to preside over a mediocre or, even worse, an altogether terrible story that undermines the near-immaculate work on season two. Loki should do what the Beatles did and go out on top. Season two gave us one of the most satisfying completions to a superhero character arc in the entire genre (comparable to Iron Man and Captain America). Loki was LITERALLY immortalized in time. Why would we give that up? For half a chuckle at his next gig as someone's sideman? I think I'm suddenly aware of what Loki's mom might be talking about because I agree with this. I think what we saw was a fitting and poetic end. I wasn't sure it could be done because I do think there's a risk in overexposing Loki. If this ending gives him the excuse to ride off into the sunset as the hero the universe needs but doesn't deserve, I think it's sweet. It's damn near a better arc than his character got in the movies when you consider this is the Loki that never matured with the events beyond the first Avengers. Sorry Loki's mom, I reckon as your son you probably don't want to see him gone, but I think good things come to an end, and that's what keeps them outstaying their welcome. For Loki's significance to the universe it's really just the beginning, but as an onscreen presence I reckon he's dunzo. I'm not saying they can't somehow make an even more ingenious setup with a season 3. Nothing's outside the realm of possibility, but if they left it at this, I think it'll be a satisfying conclusion. I'd say it's destiny he found his way here.
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Post by LokisMom on Dec 13, 2023 3:34:42 GMT 1
I don't want to get rid of him. My interpretation of how it ended is inserted himself into a situation as some sort of engine part/conductor to keep the machinery of time in tact. Far as I can tell he's there until someone or something takes his place, but my impression is as long as he's in it he'll always be alive. Well said. This isn't about getting rid of anyone; it's about knowing when to quit. If the character never returns, there is no chance for artistic decline. I don't want to see Loki come back for the sake of coming back, only to preside over a mediocre or, even worse, an altogether terrible story that undermines the near-immaculate work on season two. Loki should do what the Beatles did and go out on top. Season two gave us one of the most satisfying completions to a superhero character arc in the entire genre (comparable to Iron Man and Captain America). Loki was LITERALLY immortalized in time. Why would we give that up? For half a chuckle at his next gig as someone's sideman? Look, Loki and Thor never reconciled. Thor has a tattoo of his brother on his back. Why do you assume it will be bad? You are not an optimistic person, Lord Death Man. There is always the right time to finish, but not before the other person gets some satisfaction. Frankly, I think it’s cruel to not allow Loki to be with the only person he’s actually loved before it is over for good.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Dec 13, 2023 17:02:36 GMT 1
Well said. This isn't about getting rid of anyone; it's about knowing when to quit. If the character never returns, there is no chance for artistic decline. I don't want to see Loki come back for the sake of coming back, only to preside over a mediocre or, even worse, an altogether terrible story that undermines the near-immaculate work on season two. Loki should do what the Beatles did and go out on top. Season two gave us one of the most satisfying completions to a superhero character arc in the entire genre (comparable to Iron Man and Captain America). Loki was LITERALLY immortalized in time. Why would we give that up? For half a chuckle at his next gig as someone's sideman? Look, Loki and Thor never reconciled. Thor has a tattoo of his brother on his back. Why do you assume it will be bad? You are not an optimistic person, Lord Death Man. There is always the right time to finish, but not before the other person gets some satisfaction. Frankly, I think it’s cruel to not allow Loki to be with the only person he’s actually loved before it is over for good. My optimism, or lack thereof, has little to do with the question. If you could demonstrate why I should be optimistic given Hollywood's abysmal track record for producing sequels, prequels, spinoffs, reboots, or any follow-up to a successful IP that isn't of significantly lesser quality than its predecessor, that could help me with my lack of positivity. Your assertions make it seem like you believe Loki didn't receive closure. Nothing could be further from the truth. By the end of the series, Loki becomes profoundly self-aware and understands his purpose before making a supreme sacrifice. Loki and Thor never reconciled because Loki died. The Loki we follow in the streaming show is different from his counterpart, who died in Infinity War. Loki and Sylvie's status as ill-fated lovers may be unfair, but it isn't something we've never seen before in the canon of Western literature and popular culture. I respect your opinion and your right to express yourself; however, I am genuinely perplexed as to why you feel we can't leave well enough alone here. Whereas you are unsatisfied with Loki's conclusion, I can't think of a more satisfying conclusion to a streaming show than that of Loki season 2. Eventually, the theater goes dark, the projector cuts off, and we must go home.
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Post by LokisMom on Dec 13, 2023 17:28:46 GMT 1
Look, Loki and Thor never reconciled. Thor has a tattoo of his brother on his back. Why do you assume it will be bad? You are not an optimistic person, Lord Death Man. There is always the right time to finish, but not before the other person gets some satisfaction. Frankly, I think it’s cruel to not allow Loki to be with the only person he’s actually loved before it is over for good. My optimism, or lack thereof, has little to do with the question. If you could demonstrate why I should be optimistic given Hollywood's abysmal track record for producing sequels, prequels, spinoffs, reboots, or any follow-up to a successful IP that isn't of significantly lesser quality than its predecessor, that could help me with my lack of positivity. Your assertions make it seem like you believe Loki didn't receive closure. Nothing could be further from the truth. By the end of the series, Loki becomes profoundly self-aware and understands his purpose before making a supreme sacrifice. Loki and Thor never reconciled because Loki died. The Loki we follow in the streaming show is different from his counterpart, who died in Infinity War. Loki and Sylvie's status as ill-fated lovers may be unfair, but it isn't something we've never seen before in the canon of Western literature and popular culture. I respect your opinion and your right to express yourself; however, I am genuinely perplexed as to why you feel we can't leave well enough alone here. Whereas you are unsatisfied with Loki's conclusion, I can't think of a more satisfying conclusion to a streaming show than that of Loki season 2. Eventually, the theater goes dark, the projector cuts off, and we must go home. LDM, I get the logistics, but what does the diminishing sequel returns have to do with the hearts of the fans? I want to hope to imagine this reunion will happen. I would like to come a fan site where we can think and talk about the “what ifs” without being shutdown with “go home.” Fate is on your side, because this movie I want will probably never happen, but that does not stop me from hoping. There shouldn’t a wall here. It is speculation. Somewhere you lost the Stan Lee spirit.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Dec 13, 2023 19:32:26 GMT 1
My optimism, or lack thereof, has little to do with the question. If you could demonstrate why I should be optimistic given Hollywood's abysmal track record for producing sequels, prequels, spinoffs, reboots, or any follow-up to a successful IP that isn't of significantly lesser quality than its predecessor, that could help me with my lack of positivity. Your assertions make it seem like you believe Loki didn't receive closure. Nothing could be further from the truth. By the end of the series, Loki becomes profoundly self-aware and understands his purpose before making a supreme sacrifice. Loki and Thor never reconciled because Loki died. The Loki we follow in the streaming show is different from his counterpart, who died in Infinity War. Loki and Sylvie's status as ill-fated lovers may be unfair, but it isn't something we've never seen before in the canon of Western literature and popular culture. I respect your opinion and your right to express yourself; however, I am genuinely perplexed as to why you feel we can't leave well enough alone here. Whereas you are unsatisfied with Loki's conclusion, I can't think of a more satisfying conclusion to a streaming show than that of Loki season 2. Eventually, the theater goes dark, the projector cuts off, and we must go home. LDM, I get the logistics, but what does the diminishing sequel returns have to do with the hearts of the fans? I want to hope to imagine this reunion will happen. I would like to come a fan site where we can think and talk about the “what ifs” without being shutdown with “go home.” Fate is on your side, because this movie I want will probably never happen, but that does not stop me from hoping. There shouldn’t a wall here. It is speculation. Somewhere you lost the Stan Lee spirit. The diminishing returns I speak of are creative and not necessarily financial, although the two are often times linked. Apologies if I'm treading on your dreams. I may be placing too much of a premium on the dignity of a fictional character. Still, I'm genuinely tired of toxic fan infighting, and a near-future return of Loki would spark years of debate and argument from fans on whether or not the return was warranted.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Dec 13, 2023 21:53:38 GMT 1
My optimism, or lack thereof, has little to do with the question. If you could demonstrate why I should be optimistic given Hollywood's abysmal track record for producing sequels, prequels, spinoffs, reboots, or any follow-up to a successful IP that isn't of significantly lesser quality than its predecessor, that could help me with my lack of positivity. Your assertions make it seem like you believe Loki didn't receive closure. Nothing could be further from the truth. By the end of the series, Loki becomes profoundly self-aware and understands his purpose before making a supreme sacrifice. Loki and Thor never reconciled because Loki died. The Loki we follow in the streaming show is different from his counterpart, who died in Infinity War. Loki and Sylvie's status as ill-fated lovers may be unfair, but it isn't something we've never seen before in the canon of Western literature and popular culture. I respect your opinion and your right to express yourself; however, I am genuinely perplexed as to why you feel we can't leave well enough alone here. Whereas you are unsatisfied with Loki's conclusion, I can't think of a more satisfying conclusion to a streaming show than that of Loki season 2. Eventually, the theater goes dark, the projector cuts off, and we must go home. LDM, I get the logistics, but what does the diminishing sequel returns have to do with the hearts of the fans? I want to hope to imagine this reunion will happen. I would like to come a fan site where we can think and talk about the “what ifs” without being shutdown with “go home.” Fate is on your side, because this movie I want will probably never happen, but that does not stop me from hoping. There shouldn’t a wall here. It is speculation. Somewhere you lost the Stan Lee spirit. For me, the reality of the Loki of the Loki series not being the same Loki that developed so richly alongside Thor is too strong. Thor meeting the new Loki, the one holding time together, is like Starlord meeting the new Gamora. Identical in every way but not the same.
I think a trademark, not the definitive trademark, but a trademark nonetheless, of good entertainment is giving you something you can do more with. Imagination fodder is what it's all about, especially with sci-fi and fantasy. Somewhere out there there's a timeline where Sylvie and Loki are a kick ass crime fighting team, and in a different timeline, they're a kick ass crime fighting team who're also in love. They can only exist as long as the official story doesn't interfere with the imagination. I think if you can imagine it or even conceive of the idea then the original story did something right by providing the seeds.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Dec 14, 2023 2:25:53 GMT 1
LDM, I get the logistics, but what does the diminishing sequel returns have to do with the hearts of the fans? I want to hope to imagine this reunion will happen. I would like to come a fan site where we can think and talk about the “what ifs” without being shutdown with “go home.” Fate is on your side, because this movie I want will probably never happen, but that does not stop me from hoping. There shouldn’t a wall here. It is speculation. Somewhere you lost the Stan Lee spirit. For me, the reality of the Loki of the Loki series not being the same Loki that developed so richly alongside Thor is too strong. Thor meeting the new Loki, the one holding time together, is like Starlord meeting the new Gamora. Identical in every way but not the same. I think a trademark, not the definitive trademark, but a trademark nonetheless, of good entertainment is giving you something you can do more with. Imagination fodder is what it's all about, especially with sci-fi and fantasy. Somewhere out there there's a timeline where Sylvie and Loki are a kick ass crime fighting team, and in a different timeline, they're a kick ass crime fighting team who're also in love. They can only exist as long as the official story doesn't interfere with the imagination. I think if you can imagine it or even conceive of the idea then the original story did something right by providing the seeds.
Outstanding. You've arrived at the substance of the argument. You can take what you want from the ending of Loki and disregard the rest if you're so inclined. By the way, this discussion is in the true tradition of Champions. Thank you, AQUA CAT! and LokisMom.
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Post by Merv on Dec 14, 2023 3:58:23 GMT 1
From here in the back...
I've enjoyed reading the back and forth. I haven't spoken up because I don't feel like I've got a dog in the race. I would enjoy seeing Loki and Thor together again, always. But I also think the Loki finale left the character at a very satisfying point and don't necessarily need anything else. So whichever direction they choose I don't feel like I've got a strong opinion either way.
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Post by LokisMom on Jan 16, 2024 6:44:03 GMT 1
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 9, 2024 4:18:01 GMT 1
I think there is a deep irony in discussing “should they continue after this perfect ending for Loki” after a series that survived the “they already had the perfect ending for Loki” debate once already
This series was magic and I’m in the camp that it is one of the very best CBM projects the genre has ever produced. Which makes the idea of topping it or even competing with it a tall order at best. But after being reluctant of the idea that it even exist, I’m inclined to let anyone who feels stronger they have something to say with this character or any other, let them have their shot
Since Gamora go brought up, I’ll mention her. I don’t think they said anything with her return. I wish they had or would. I had an expectation to take her character on a much darker path.
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Post by LokisMom on Feb 9, 2024 4:42:52 GMT 1
I think there is a deep irony in discussing “should they continue after this perfect ending for Loki” after a series that survived the “they already had the perfect ending for Loki” debate once already This series was magic and I’m in the camp that it is one of the very best CBM projects the genre has ever produced. Which makes the idea of topping it or even competing with it a tall order at best. But after being reluctant of the idea that it even exist, I’m inclined to let anyone who feels stronger they have something to say with this character or any other, let them have their shot Since Gamora go brought up, I’ll mention her. I don’t think they said anything with her return. I wish they had or would. I had an expectation to take her character on a much darker path. The problem is Loki cannot be retired from the comics. They can mothball him, but since he’s a public domain character, anyone can start their own franchise. And Loki should be partnered with Thor. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, so I suspect the MCU cannot resist a reunion of some kind later on. We still don’t know for sure if Loki Prime is dead yet. If his Variant can survive temporal radiation, inert for thousands of years, he can withstand deep space. As Sylvie said, you can’t kill a Loki. When they do find each other again, I hope it is sloppy and happy. I hate Marvel made Loki obviously bisexual in the story, because I think that turned off some fans and they’d rather he go away now.
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Post by LokisMom on Feb 19, 2024 12:29:47 GMT 1
Tom at the People’s Choice Awards. Can you tell where he’s hiding the Infinity Stones?
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