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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Jun 28, 2023 4:30:31 GMT 1
I cannot agree with that. I understand why you feel that way, but there are simply too many people working the film industry for us to be able to know if there is or isn't anyone who can pull it off. I guarantee you right now there are. As to whether or not they will be chosen is another matter. I completely understand your disbelief, but I'm telling you that if the Fantastic Four movie development continues as is, the result will be an unprecedented disappointment in the MCU canon and a further detriment to the already-troubled Fantastic Four brand. Adam Driver and Margot Robbie, potentially playing Reed Richards and Sue Storm, would be distracting. Instead of seeing the characters from the comics, we may end up only seeing these Hollywood stars in their stead. Many fans treat this upcoming Fantastic Four film as just another Marvel movie that the studio can quickly churn out in the "shake and bake" comic book movie style. The creative process will be compromised in their hurry to satiate audiences' appetite for more content. Making the next Fantastic Four film should be a labor of love that takes as long as it needs to take. The Fantastic Four brand is STILL in crisis; it should be treated as if it were in the CBM ICU. What development? It's been five years of total silence. What rush? It's been five years already. I understand. I really do. I want Marvel Studios to get this right as much as you do, but I refuse to believe that five years is not enough time to get the foundation built. The Fantastic Four is not unfilmable. The Fox FF films were just made by people who didn't care. Marvel Studios SHOULD have something to show for a half-decade's work. It's not like having eight years between Rise of the Silver Surfer and Fan4stic did the latter any good. It's not about how much time is spent, but how the time is spent. Peter Jackson had begun and ended Pre-Production and principal photography of the LotR films and completed and released in Fellowship of the Ring in five years' time. Kevin Feige can't put together one 2-hour Fantastic Four film in that same amount of time?
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 28, 2023 5:24:20 GMT 1
I completely understand your disbelief, but I'm telling you that if the Fantastic Four movie development continues as is, the result will be an unprecedented disappointment in the MCU canon and a further detriment to the already-troubled Fantastic Four brand. Adam Driver and Margot Robbie, potentially playing Reed Richards and Sue Storm, would be distracting. Instead of seeing the characters from the comics, we may end up only seeing these Hollywood stars in their stead. Many fans treat this upcoming Fantastic Four film as just another Marvel movie that the studio can quickly churn out in the "shake and bake" comic book movie style. The creative process will be compromised in their hurry to satiate audiences' appetite for more content. Making the next Fantastic Four film should be a labor of love that takes as long as it needs to take. The Fantastic Four brand is STILL in crisis; it should be treated as if it were in the CBM ICU. What development? It's been five years of total silence. What rush? It's been five years already. I understand. I really do. I want Marvel Studios to get this right as much as you do, but I refuse to believe that five years is not enough time to get the foundation built. The Fantastic Four is not unfilmable. The Fox FF films were just made by people who didn't care. Marvel Studios SHOULD have something to show for a half-decade's work. It's not like having eight years between Rise of the Silver Surfer and Fan4stic did the latter any good. It's not about how much time is spent, but how the time is spent. Peter Jackson had begun and ended Pre-Production and principal photography of the LotR films and completed and released in Fellowship of the Ring in five years' time. Kevin Feige can't put together one 2-hour Fantastic Four film in that same amount of time? What is your expectation for the normal development cycle of a big-budget Hollywood film? It varies from project to project greatly. We've had director turnover on this project. Shakman was bought on last year. They likely scrapped Watts' work and started over. We probably have a while yet before we see anything of substance. I'm not in a hurry for this, and depending on the project, five years is a drop in the development hell bucket. For perspective, The Flash, released on June 12, 2023, was announced in 2014 and was set to start filming in 2016 with a projected release date of March 23, 2018.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Jun 28, 2023 5:53:09 GMT 1
What development? It's been five years of total silence. What rush? It's been five years already. I understand. I really do. I want Marvel Studios to get this right as much as you do, but I refuse to believe that five years is not enough time to get the foundation built. The Fantastic Four is not unfilmable. The Fox FF films were just made by people who didn't care. Marvel Studios SHOULD have something to show for a half-decade's work. It's not like having eight years between Rise of the Silver Surfer and Fan4stic did the latter any good. It's not about how much time is spent, but how the time is spent. Peter Jackson had begun and ended Pre-Production and principal photography of the LotR films and completed and released in Fellowship of the Ring in five years' time. Kevin Feige can't put together one 2-hour Fantastic Four film in that same amount of time? What is your expectation for the normal development cycle of a big-budget Hollywood film? It varies from project to project greatly. We've had director turnover on this project. Shakman was bought on last year. They likely scrapped Watts' work and started over. We probably have a while yet before we see anything of substance. I'm not in a hurry for this, and depending on the project, five years is a drop in the development hell bucket. For perspective, The Flash, released on June 12, 2023, was announced in 2014 and was set to start filming in 2016 with a projected release date of March 23, 2018. Yeah, but The Flash was a WB production, and those are always full of behind-the-scenes fuckery (especially the Snyderverse ones). I expect better from Marvel Studios even with their more recent stumbles. I don't have any expectation for how long it should take, but five years of radio silence concerning every aspect of production makes it difficult to believe much work is being done.
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Post by Grandmaster on Jun 28, 2023 6:29:00 GMT 1
I just hope episode 2 of Secret Invasion is epic. That is where my focus is
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 28, 2023 17:17:17 GMT 1
What is your expectation for the normal development cycle of a big-budget Hollywood film? It varies from project to project greatly. We've had director turnover on this project. Shakman was bought on last year. They likely scrapped Watts' work and started over. We probably have a while yet before we see anything of substance. I'm not in a hurry for this, and depending on the project, five years is a drop in the development hell bucket. For perspective, The Flash, released on June 12, 2023, was announced in 2014 and was set to start filming in 2016 with a projected release date of March 23, 2018. Yeah, but The Flash was a WB production, and those are always full of behind-the-scenes fuckery (especially the Snyderverse ones). I expect better from Marvel Studios even with their more recent stumbles. I don't have any expectation for how long it should take, but five years of radio silence concerning every aspect of production makes it difficult to believe much work is being done. "We've got to be very careful now, AQUA RAPTOR! ." Continued patience is a virtue. MCU Fans are unraveling left and right because they lack patience and discipline. They're morphing into anti-fandom trolls who drag Marvel because they release things too quickly or slowly. Marvel typically delivers when they say they're working on something, with few exceptions. I'd put their track record against the dozens of projects other studios announced that never materialized any day. A lot is riding on Fantastic Four. The typical Marvel development cycle clearly isn't working for this film. They can't just allocate the traditional $150 M budget, hire beautiful people who say the lines and do the things, and then call it a day. There is real pressure to make a Fantastic Four film that unequivocally surpasses all of the previous ones in quality and relevance. Fantastic Four is Marvel's first test of reviving acquired Fox IP. They can't afford to fail. Sadly, everything I've heard indicates they're not on the right track. Based on the director and the casting rumors I've heard, they may eke out a serviceable Fantastic Four movie. It won't be great or memorable, though.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Jun 28, 2023 18:57:05 GMT 1
Yeah, but The Flash was a WB production, and those are always full of behind-the-scenes fuckery (especially the Snyderverse ones). I expect better from Marvel Studios even with their more recent stumbles. I don't have any expectation for how long it should take, but five years of radio silence concerning every aspect of production makes it difficult to believe much work is being done. "We've got to be very careful now, AQUA RAPTOR! ." Continued patience is a virtue. MCU Fans are unraveling left and right because they lack patience and discipline. They're morphing into anti-fandom trolls who drag Marvel because they release things too quickly or slowly. Marvel typically delivers when they say they're working on something, with few exceptions. I'd put their track record against the dozens of projects other studios announced that never materialized any day. A lot is riding on Fantastic Four. The typical Marvel development cycle clearly isn't working for this film. They can't just allocate the traditional $150 M budget, hire beautiful people who say the lines and do the things, and then call it a day. There is real pressure to make a Fantastic Four film that unequivocally surpasses all of the previous ones in quality and relevance. Fantastic Four is Marvel's first test of reviving acquired Fox IP. They can't afford to fail. Sadly, everything I've heard indicates they're not on the right track. Based on the director and the casting rumors I've heard, they may eke out a serviceable Fantastic Four movie. It won't be great or memorable, though. I'm more inclined to believe fans are just dissatisfied with some of Phase 4's offerings than the fans being the problem. Feige has doubled down way too hard on using the Multiverse as a gimmick to cross over with dead franchises instead of doing something truly interesting with it. Doctor Strange 2 was shit on toast for ignoring the first DS film and for making Wanda run through the exact same laps she'd already previously done in Wandavision (but now she murders people (and where the hell is White Vision?!)). The Eternals was just a big waste. Falcon and the Winter Soldier was so stuck on its own political messages that it accidentally made John Walker, the Global Repatriation Council, that GRC Senator, and the U.S. government the most likeable characters on the entire show despite them being the alleged "true evil" because Sam and Bucky are fucking douchebags who show more sympathy to a bunch of thieves and murderers than they do a fellow serviceman and the organization that is desperately trying to allocate food, supplies, and places to live for the entire human population simultaneously because half that population blipped out and blipped back in in just the span of five years. Yeah, Karli, some of those supplies are gonna be a bit late. And, really, having Karli rob from people who got blipped? Really? And in the case of She-Hulk, they went out of their way to alienate any viewer who happened to be born with a penis. Yeah, a lot of fans have turned on the MCU as of Phase 4, and for good reason. It's not about a lack of patience or discipline, it's about Marvel Studios having dropped the ball hard in a lot of ways. If Kevin Feige wants to do the Fantastic Four right, all he has to do is follow the spirit of the comics, like he did back in Phases 1-3.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 28, 2023 20:23:24 GMT 1
"We've got to be very careful now, AQUA RAPTOR! ." Continued patience is a virtue. MCU Fans are unraveling left and right because they lack patience and discipline. They're morphing into anti-fandom trolls who drag Marvel because they release things too quickly or slowly. Marvel typically delivers when they say they're working on something, with few exceptions. I'd put their track record against the dozens of projects other studios announced that never materialized any day. A lot is riding on Fantastic Four. The typical Marvel development cycle clearly isn't working for this film. They can't just allocate the traditional $150 M budget, hire beautiful people who say the lines and do the things, and then call it a day. There is real pressure to make a Fantastic Four film that unequivocally surpasses all of the previous ones in quality and relevance. Fantastic Four is Marvel's first test of reviving acquired Fox IP. They can't afford to fail. Sadly, everything I've heard indicates they're not on the right track. Based on the director and the casting rumors I've heard, they may eke out a serviceable Fantastic Four movie. It won't be great or memorable, though. I'm more inclined to believe fans are just dissatisfied with some of Phase 4's offerings than the fans being the problem. Feige has doubled down way too hard on using the Multiverse as a gimmick to cross over with dead franchises instead of doing something truly interesting with it. Doctor Strange 2 was shit on toast for ignoring the first DS film and for making Wanda run through the exact same laps she'd already previously done in Wandavision (but now she murders people (and where the hell is White Vision?!)). The Eternals was just a big waste. Falcon and the Winter Soldier was so stuck on its own political messages that it accidentally made John Walker, the Global Repatriation Council, that GRC Senator, and the U.S. government the most likeable characters on the entire show despite them being the alleged "true evil" because Sam and Bucky are fucking douchebags who show more sympathy to a bunch of thieves and murderers than they do a fellow serviceman and the organization that is desperately trying to allocate food, supplies, and places to live for the entire human population simultaneously because half that population blipped out and blipped back in in just the span of five years. Yeah, Karli, some of those supplies are gonna be a bit late. And, really, having Karli rob from people who got blipped? Really? And in the case of She-Hulk, they went out of their way to alienate any viewer who happened to be born with a penis. Yeah, a lot of fans have turned on the MCU as of Phase 4, and for good reason. It's not about a lack of patience or discipline, it's about Marvel Studios having dropped the ball hard in a lot of ways. If Kevin Feige wants to do the Fantastic Four right, all he has to do is follow the spirit of the comics, like he did back in Phases 1-3. I see your point, but it's important to remember that fans aren't completely blameless in this situation. The relentless need for immediate knowledge about upcoming projects is creating a negative impact on the franchise. This instant gratification culture is breeding a hive of scum and villainy among scoopers, spoiling plot points and character arcs - they are fungus on the jock of the fandom. These leaks force the studios into a reactionary stance, making hasty decisions for upcoming projects that they likely wouldn't have made otherwise. A rushed Fantastic Four film is not going to improve the situation. It seems like many fans are not completely aware of the type of storytelling Disney and Marvel are engaged in. They produce and release four-quadrant films - movies and TV shows that need to appeal to all viewer demographics, which invariably means someone is not going to like something. It's part of the package - if you're upset about not liking everything Marvel puts out, perhaps revisiting your Lord of The Rings DVDs will bring comfort. But the fact remains that a sizable portion of fans have turned their backs on the MCU. We are so far up our own asses with entitlement in this fandom, it's a wonder that the MCU hasn't transformed into the DCEU. Remember, it was the toxicity among DC fans, their incessant punching down, that eroded the franchise long before the money-hungry execs got involved. The latter merely served as the Paul bearers at the funeral. Yes, capturing the spirit of the comic books is the first step in making a successful movie - but in addition to that, you gotta make the movie, and there's a lot that goes into that. The fact the you feel comfortable boiling that entire process down to one a pithy soundbite is very telling of where we are as fans.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Jun 28, 2023 23:42:48 GMT 1
I'm more inclined to believe fans are just dissatisfied with some of Phase 4's offerings than the fans being the problem. Feige has doubled down way too hard on using the Multiverse as a gimmick to cross over with dead franchises instead of doing something truly interesting with it. Doctor Strange 2 was shit on toast for ignoring the first DS film and for making Wanda run through the exact same laps she'd already previously done in Wandavision (but now she murders people (and where the hell is White Vision?!)). The Eternals was just a big waste. Falcon and the Winter Soldier was so stuck on its own political messages that it accidentally made John Walker, the Global Repatriation Council, that GRC Senator, and the U.S. government the most likeable characters on the entire show despite them being the alleged "true evil" because Sam and Bucky are fucking douchebags who show more sympathy to a bunch of thieves and murderers than they do a fellow serviceman and the organization that is desperately trying to allocate food, supplies, and places to live for the entire human population simultaneously because half that population blipped out and blipped back in in just the span of five years. Yeah, Karli, some of those supplies are gonna be a bit late. And, really, having Karli rob from people who got blipped? Really? And in the case of She-Hulk, they went out of their way to alienate any viewer who happened to be born with a penis. Yeah, a lot of fans have turned on the MCU as of Phase 4, and for good reason. It's not about a lack of patience or discipline, it's about Marvel Studios having dropped the ball hard in a lot of ways. If Kevin Feige wants to do the Fantastic Four right, all he has to do is follow the spirit of the comics, like he did back in Phases 1-3. I see your point, but it's important to remember that fans aren't completely blameless in this situation. The relentless need for immediate knowledge about upcoming projects is creating a negative impact on the franchise. This instant gratification culture is breeding a hive of scum and villainy among scoopers, spoiling plot points and character arcs - they are fungus on the jock of the fandom. The scoopers are not fans, and most people I've spoken to hate them, too. As for wanting to know something about upcoming movies: it's the norm. Studios tease what they're working on and get the fans hyped and fans get an idea if they like the direction something is going in. Getting antsy about five years of silence while the series keeps almost jumping the shark is not illegitimate. Then they're reacting exactly as the scoopers want them to. Knowing that Bruce Will is dead in The Sixth Sense does not detract from enjoying it for new viewers, so studios are to blame for any hasty decisions they make in light of scoops. Five years with no news is not rushing, for the millionth time. We're at the point where a lot of someones are not liking a lot of the package. So, they're utterly failing at something they succeeded with between 2008-2019. Throughout 2008-2019, they took the world by storm, and the world was ready for whatever they did next. It's not the fans' fault Feige's gone off his meds. No one is upset about not liking everything Marvel puts out. People are upset that half their Phase 4 output just utterly falls flat compared to what came before. No one asked or wanted them to do most of the things that have been received poorly in Phase 4. Few like the "Boner" cameo in Wandavision. No one wanted a Sam and Bucky show that treats legitimate terrorists like misunderstood kids acting out while demonizing those who are just trying to help. No one wanted Mordo's story from Doctor Strange to just be dropped and never referenced again. No one wanted a She-Hulk show where the universe bends over backwards not to give her consequences for her actions and act like she's in the right whenever she behaves like a brat (while whining about being catcalled to Bruce Banner, a man who has experienced untold horrors). And I think anyone with a brain working at Marvel Studios knew that, and they did it, anyway, because gotta push those politics. You mean half the human population didn't appreciate being told by She-Hulk that they're evil because they're men? Color me not surprised. Yes, I feel entitled to buy a product that is of the same quality and standard as what I bought before, especially with rising costs. If I buy Hamburger Helper and instead discover that what's inside the box is cornflakes, yeah, I'm gonna be pissed. I am comfortable boiling the process down to that, because if you understand the soul of the material you're adapting and give a damn, you'll know what steps need to be taken to do it right. That passion would impact every decision you make during the creation process. I would argue it was harder to get Thor, the Guardians of the Galaxy, and Ant-Man right than it will be to get the Fantastic Four right. I don't think it's hard to do the FF justice, even after the Tim Story and Josh Trank films. If Marvel Studios is having such a hard time, it's because they're not looking in the right place.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 29, 2023 1:49:32 GMT 1
I see your point, but it's important to remember that fans aren't completely blameless in this situation. The relentless need for immediate knowledge about upcoming projects is creating a negative impact on the franchise. This instant gratification culture is breeding a hive of scum and villainy among scoopers, spoiling plot points and character arcs - they are fungus on the jock of the fandom. The scoopers are not fans, and most people I've spoken to hate them, too. As for wanting to know something about upcoming movies: it's the norm. Studios tease what they're working on and get the fans hyped and fans get an idea if they like the direction something is going in. Getting antsy about five years of silence while the series keeps almost jumping the shark is not illegitimate. Then they're reacting exactly as the scoopers want them to. Knowing that Bruce Will is dead in The Sixth Sense does not detract from enjoying it for new viewers, so studios are to blame for any hasty decisions they make in light of scoops. Five years with no news is not rushing, for the millionth time. We're at the point where a lot of someones are not liking a lot of the package. So, they're utterly failing at something they succeeded with between 2008-2019. Throughout 2008-2019, they took the world by storm, and the world was ready for whatever they did next. It's not the fans' fault Feige's gone off his meds. No one is upset about not liking everything Marvel puts out. People are upset that half their Phase 4 output just utterly falls flat compared to what came before. No one asked or wanted them to do most of the things that have been received poorly in Phase 4. Few like the "Boner" cameo in Wandavision. No one wanted a Sam and Bucky show that treats legitimate terrorists like misunderstood kids acting out while demonizing those who are just trying to help. No one wanted Mordo's story from Doctor Strange to just be dropped and never referenced again. No one wanted a She-Hulk show where the universe bends over backwards not to give her consequences for her actions and act like she's in the right whenever she behaves like a brat (while whining about being catcalled to Bruce Banner, a man who has experienced untold horrors). And I think anyone with a brain working at Marvel Studios knew that, and they did it, anyway, because gotta push those politics. You mean half the human population didn't appreciate being told by She-Hulk that they're evil because they're men? Color me not surprised. Yes, I feel entitled to buy a product that is of the same quality and standard as what I bought before, especially with rising costs. If I buy Hamburger Helper and instead discover that what's inside the box is cornflakes, yeah, I'm gonna be pissed. I am comfortable boiling the process down to that, because if you understand the soul of the material you're adapting and give a damn, you'll know what steps need to be taken to do it right. That passion would impact every decision you make during the creation process. I would argue it was harder to get Thor, the Guardians of the Galaxy, and Ant-Man right than it will be to get the Fantastic Four right. I don't think it's hard to do the FF justice, even after the Tim Story and Josh Trank films. If Marvel Studios is having such a hard time, it's because they're not looking in the right place. We obviously don't use a common framework regarding how we view the MCU, its accomplishments, challenges, and future potential. I respect your viewpoint, and to a very limited extent, I might even share it. However, I'm afraid I have to disagree with your assessment regarding the fans, the media, and the overall quality of recent MCU output. If I were you and was as unhappy with as much of the recent MCU output as you profess to be, I'd probably quit the franchise instead of waiting around for the next "good" MCU film. Can you stomach half a dozen bad ones to get to a genre masterpiece? That's what being a fan is all about - the thick and the thin. You're commentary on Marvel's most recent output borders on hysterical anger. I'm literally almost worried for you. Based on your comments, you see the MCU as a consumerist endeavor designed strictly for passive consumption rather than as the product of creative endeavor, which must, by design, defy its user's expectations in order to evolve. In the framework you've placed the MCU in, not only is it failing, but it must and will continue to fail to meet expectations because expectations will always exceed the practical limits of what can be achieved in reality. If you just want to see a "good" and "fun" comic book movie, I assure you, one will be along shortly. I have read comic book literature for the better part of my life. I can say, without exaggeration, that maybe 80% of what I've consumed is either flat-out bad or just okay at best. Under those conditions, some might say my dedication to the medium is unwarranted. Those people would fail to understand that the 20% that exceeded the confines of the genre, the 20% that shined, was absolutely worth every other wasted second. I'm also disappointed in some of the MCU's recent output. Still, it doesn't make me feel smart or accomplished to lapse into an overly critical headspace fueled by negativity and borderline toxicity. Fandom energy is nothing if not transferrable. What you put into a fandom is exactly what you get out of it. You can dislike something without dwelling on your dissatisfaction or becoming consumed by it. Ask yourself. Right now. How many of the discussions you're having in the fandom-sphere are actually production exchanges of ideas, thoughts, and constructive criticism vs. "me like" and "me don't like" grunting. At the end of the day, you're debating this issue to come out as a winner. Victory for you is the systematic destruction of each of my arguments so that you may reaffirm your own worldview. You'll walk away feeling confident and justified in your beliefs, and, in so doing, whatever love you have for any of this will get that much closer to fading --- until it was like it was never there, to begin with. I can't treat this like I'm at a fast food restaurant waiting for the next value meal while the slobber from the first one still drips down my chin.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Jun 29, 2023 2:48:30 GMT 1
The scoopers are not fans, and most people I've spoken to hate them, too. As for wanting to know something about upcoming movies: it's the norm. Studios tease what they're working on and get the fans hyped and fans get an idea if they like the direction something is going in. Getting antsy about five years of silence while the series keeps almost jumping the shark is not illegitimate. Then they're reacting exactly as the scoopers want them to. Knowing that Bruce Will is dead in The Sixth Sense does not detract from enjoying it for new viewers, so studios are to blame for any hasty decisions they make in light of scoops. Five years with no news is not rushing, for the millionth time. We're at the point where a lot of someones are not liking a lot of the package. So, they're utterly failing at something they succeeded with between 2008-2019. Throughout 2008-2019, they took the world by storm, and the world was ready for whatever they did next. It's not the fans' fault Feige's gone off his meds. No one is upset about not liking everything Marvel puts out. People are upset that half their Phase 4 output just utterly falls flat compared to what came before. No one asked or wanted them to do most of the things that have been received poorly in Phase 4. Few like the "Boner" cameo in Wandavision. No one wanted a Sam and Bucky show that treats legitimate terrorists like misunderstood kids acting out while demonizing those who are just trying to help. No one wanted Mordo's story from Doctor Strange to just be dropped and never referenced again. No one wanted a She-Hulk show where the universe bends over backwards not to give her consequences for her actions and act like she's in the right whenever she behaves like a brat (while whining about being catcalled to Bruce Banner, a man who has experienced untold horrors). And I think anyone with a brain working at Marvel Studios knew that, and they did it, anyway, because gotta push those politics. You mean half the human population didn't appreciate being told by She-Hulk that they're evil because they're men? Color me not surprised. Yes, I feel entitled to buy a product that is of the same quality and standard as what I bought before, especially with rising costs. If I buy Hamburger Helper and instead discover that what's inside the box is cornflakes, yeah, I'm gonna be pissed. I am comfortable boiling the process down to that, because if you understand the soul of the material you're adapting and give a damn, you'll know what steps need to be taken to do it right. That passion would impact every decision you make during the creation process. I would argue it was harder to get Thor, the Guardians of the Galaxy, and Ant-Man right than it will be to get the Fantastic Four right. I don't think it's hard to do the FF justice, even after the Tim Story and Josh Trank films. If Marvel Studios is having such a hard time, it's because they're not looking in the right place. We obviously don't use a common framework regarding how we view the MCU, its accomplishments, challenges, and future potential. I respect your viewpoint, and to a very limited extent, I might even share it. However, I'm afraid I have to disagree with your assessment regarding the fans, the media, and the overall quality of recent MCU output. Well, that's the thing. I'm not displeased with all the output. They keep doing it right just often enough that I can't abandon ship. I liked most of Wandavision, I overall liked Loki, Black Widow, Shang-Chi, I like Spider-Man: No Way Home despite still being opposed to the direction they took, Moon Knight, Miss Marvel, Thor: Love and Thunder, and Quantumania. The only ones I absolutely loved were Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special and Guardians Vol. 3, but those were Gunn's swan songs. I'm still enjoying just about every other one they put out on am "they're okay" level, but they are not living up to what came before. Frustrated and wary is more how it is. There have been moments of brilliance across the board, even in the entries I don't like, but as a whole, it's just not meshing together into a coherent universe like it was before. Now I am a little angry at you, because I feel you blaming the fans is very unfair. Is it really that far of a bridge to admit that perhaps Marvel Studios may be making some decisions that they shouldn't and that it may be negatively impacting their films and shows? I am willing to admit there is toxicity in the MCU fandom, but the creatives aren't innocent, either. The She-Hulk practically went to war with their own viewership over the show's reception. For my money, we've not had a half-dozen bad ones in a row, but we've also only had one genre masterpiece in all of Phase 4 and 5, and that Gunn's final goodbye to the MCU. The MCU is a franchise built out of mainstream blockbusters. Mainstream blockbusters are designed to be crowd pleasers. If you're failing at pleasing the crowd, you're failing. It really is that simple. From what I'm witnessed, only Spider-Man: No Way Home and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 have managed to hit that sweet spot. At the end of the day, Feige needs to make quality films and shows that will draw a crowd to garner long-term endearment, or else the MCU will die. In what world is "Make movies as consistently good as the ones you made during Phases 1-3," asking too much? ...We'll see about that. What's so wrong with wanting to go to the theater to see a solidly made, good, fun movie, anyway? Especially when comic book movies literally exist to be all of those things. Comic books are also something you sit down and enjoy by yourself with maybe the occasional second reader. If you read a bad one, that's only your time and money wasted. A movie is something that can be a family event, and if you take your loved ones to a stinker, that's everyone's night and money wasted unless you leave quickly enough to get a refund. I rarely go to movies by myself. I almost always take friends and/or family. There's a bit more riding on me to take them to a good one than there is me reading a new comic book issue. Not to mention quite a few more careers are on the line if a movie flops as opposed to if one comic book issue doesn't sell super well. It's not about feeling smart to me. I just hate watching creators I respect begin to get sloppy in sowing the tapestry. Most of them, actually. I've not had many discussions on this topic that don't go into the details. A lot of people I've spoken to about Doctor Strange 2 feel cheated because Mordo was unceremoniously dropped. Others think Wanda was misused and potentially killed off too soon. Others hate the Illuminati scene for the pointless cameos. Others hate how Wanda's story feels like a retread of what she went through in Wandavision. I've not had any difficulty finding people who can articulate why they're dissatisfied. Granted, I know where to look for discussion. No, actually. I just think a lot of fans have legitimate reason to be dissatisfied with how the MCU has been turning out post-Phase 4 and I feel compelled to stick up for them. My "rant" as you put it, was basically me citing reasons some fans are unhappy with (although I do happen to agree with many of them). No one is asking you to. People are literally asking for the same level of quality and consistency as what we had before.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 29, 2023 3:00:47 GMT 1
We obviously don't use a common framework regarding how we view the MCU, its accomplishments, challenges, and future potential. I respect your viewpoint, and to a very limited extent, I might even share it. However, I'm afraid I have to disagree with your assessment regarding the fans, the media, and the overall quality of recent MCU output. Well, that's the thing. I'm not displeased with all the output. They keep doing it right just often enough that I can't abandon ship. I liked most of Wandavision, I overall liked Loki, Black Widow, Shang-Chi, I like Spider-Man: No Way Home despite still being opposed to the direction they took, Moon Knight, Miss Marvel, Thor: Love and Thunder, and Quantumania. The only ones I absolutely loved were Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special and Guardians Vol. 3, but those were Gunn's swan songs. I'm still enjoying just about every other one they put out on am "they're okay" level, but they are not living up to what came before. Frustrated and wary is more how it is. There have been moments of brilliance across the board, even in the entries I don't like, but as a whole, it's just not meshing together into a coherent universe like it was before. Now I am a little angry at you, because I feel you blaming the fans is very unfair. Is it really that far of a bridge to admit that perhaps Marvel Studios may be making some decisions that they shouldn't and that it may be negatively impacting their films and shows? I am willing to admit there is toxicity in the MCU fandom, but the creatives aren't innocent, either. The She-Hulk practically went to war with their own viewership over the show's reception. For my money, we've not had a half-dozen bad ones in a row, but we've also only had one genre masterpiece in all of Phase 4 and 5, and that Gunn's final goodbye to the MCU. The MCU is a franchise built out of mainstream blockbusters. Mainstream blockbusters are designed to be crowd pleasers. If you're failing at pleasing the crowd, you're failing. It really is that simple. From what I'm witnessed, only Spider-Man: No Way Home and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 have managed to hit that sweet spot. At the end of the day, Feige needs to make quality films and shows that will draw a crowd to garner long-term endearment, or else the MCU will die. In what world is "Make movies as consistently good as the ones you made during Phases 1-3," asking too much? ...We'll see about that. What's so wrong with wanting to go to the theater to see a solidly made, good, fun movie, anyway? Especially when comic book movies literally exist to be all of those things. Comic books are also something you sit down and enjoy by yourself with maybe the occasional second reader. If you read a bad one, that's only your time and money wasted. A movie is something that can be a family event, and if you take your loved ones to a stinker, that's everyone's night and money wasted unless you leave quickly enough to get a refund. I rarely go to movies by myself. I almost always take friends and/or family. There's a bit more riding on me to take them to a good one than there is me reading a new comic book issue. Not to mention quite a few more careers are on the line if a movie flops as opposed to if one comic book issue doesn't sell super well. It's not about feeling smart to me. I just hate watching creators I respect begin to get sloppy in sowing the tapestry. Most of them, actually. I've not had many discussions on this topic that don't go into the details. A lot of people I've spoken to about Doctor Strange 2 feel cheated because Mordo was unceremoniously dropped. Others think Wanda was misused and potentially killed off too soon. Others hate the Illuminati scene for the pointless cameos. Others hate how Wanda's story feels like a retread of what she went through in Wandavision. I've not had any difficulty finding people who can articulate why they're dissatisfied. Granted, I know where to look for discussion. No, actually. I just think a lot of fans have legitimate reason to be dissatisfied with how the MCU has been turning out post-Phase 4 and I feel compelled to stick up for them. My "rant" as you put it, was basically me citing reasons some fans are unhappy with (although I do happen to agree with many of them). No one is asking you to. People are literally asking for the same level of quality and consistency as what we had before. What came before can't come again. it's the first rule of being creative. I honestly think that beyond all of its consumerist mass appeal, there is something quite special about the MCU. We've had three great phases from them, and somehow we can't be charitable enough to tolerate one mixed phase. What's going to happen is this. Fans won't stop complaining because they feel it's their God given duty and right to complain. And all this will end miserably, and then we'll have nothing. We'll be internet boys haunting the boards talking 'bout dem good ole days. I'm never going to take this period of Hollywood filmmaking for granted, because once the age of the CBM is over - I doubt it will ever come back in any kind of meaningful way ever again.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Jun 29, 2023 3:39:14 GMT 1
Well, that's the thing. I'm not displeased with all the output. They keep doing it right just often enough that I can't abandon ship. I liked most of Wandavision, I overall liked Loki, Black Widow, Shang-Chi, I like Spider-Man: No Way Home despite still being opposed to the direction they took, Moon Knight, Miss Marvel, Thor: Love and Thunder, and Quantumania. The only ones I absolutely loved were Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special and Guardians Vol. 3, but those were Gunn's swan songs. I'm still enjoying just about every other one they put out on am "they're okay" level, but they are not living up to what came before. Frustrated and wary is more how it is. There have been moments of brilliance across the board, even in the entries I don't like, but as a whole, it's just not meshing together into a coherent universe like it was before. Now I am a little angry at you, because I feel you blaming the fans is very unfair. Is it really that far of a bridge to admit that perhaps Marvel Studios may be making some decisions that they shouldn't and that it may be negatively impacting their films and shows? I am willing to admit there is toxicity in the MCU fandom, but the creatives aren't innocent, either. The She-Hulk practically went to war with their own viewership over the show's reception. For my money, we've not had a half-dozen bad ones in a row, but we've also only had one genre masterpiece in all of Phase 4 and 5, and that Gunn's final goodbye to the MCU. The MCU is a franchise built out of mainstream blockbusters. Mainstream blockbusters are designed to be crowd pleasers. If you're failing at pleasing the crowd, you're failing. It really is that simple. From what I'm witnessed, only Spider-Man: No Way Home and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 have managed to hit that sweet spot. At the end of the day, Feige needs to make quality films and shows that will draw a crowd to garner long-term endearment, or else the MCU will die. In what world is "Make movies as consistently good as the ones you made during Phases 1-3," asking too much? ...We'll see about that. What's so wrong with wanting to go to the theater to see a solidly made, good, fun movie, anyway? Especially when comic book movies literally exist to be all of those things. Comic books are also something you sit down and enjoy by yourself with maybe the occasional second reader. If you read a bad one, that's only your time and money wasted. A movie is something that can be a family event, and if you take your loved ones to a stinker, that's everyone's night and money wasted unless you leave quickly enough to get a refund. I rarely go to movies by myself. I almost always take friends and/or family. There's a bit more riding on me to take them to a good one than there is me reading a new comic book issue. Not to mention quite a few more careers are on the line if a movie flops as opposed to if one comic book issue doesn't sell super well. It's not about feeling smart to me. I just hate watching creators I respect begin to get sloppy in sowing the tapestry. Most of them, actually. I've not had many discussions on this topic that don't go into the details. A lot of people I've spoken to about Doctor Strange 2 feel cheated because Mordo was unceremoniously dropped. Others think Wanda was misused and potentially killed off too soon. Others hate the Illuminati scene for the pointless cameos. Others hate how Wanda's story feels like a retread of what she went through in Wandavision. I've not had any difficulty finding people who can articulate why they're dissatisfied. Granted, I know where to look for discussion. No, actually. I just think a lot of fans have legitimate reason to be dissatisfied with how the MCU has been turning out post-Phase 4 and I feel compelled to stick up for them. My "rant" as you put it, was basically me citing reasons some fans are unhappy with (although I do happen to agree with many of them). No one is asking you to. People are literally asking for the same level of quality and consistency as what we had before. What came before can't come again. it's the first rule of being creative. I honestly think that beyond all of its consumerist mass appeal, there is something quite special about the MCU. We've had three great phases from them, and somehow we can't be charitable enough to tolerate one mixed phase. What's going to happen is this. Fans won't stop complaining because they feel it's their God given duty and right to complain. And all this will end miserably, and then we'll have nothing. We'll be internet boys haunting the boards talking 'bout dem good ole days. I'm never going to take this period of Hollywood filmmaking for granted, because once the age of the CBM is over - I doubt it will ever come back in any kind of meaningful way ever again. The MCU also became a lot more aggressive with its politics in the fourth Phase. You have to take that into consideration. I feel a lot less inclined to be charitable when I feel like the people making MCU films and shows think of me as a problem just for not being a Liberal. Instead of aiming at general audiences, Marvel Studios is putting a stamp on a lot of its more recent output as "only being for audience members of a certain political ideology, and everyone who doesn't fall in line can fuck off," because non-Liberals are a "problem" meant to "fixed". It is very difficult not to roll my eyes when Falcon and the Winter Soldier goes on and on about how a black man would never be accepted as Captain America when an overwhelming majority of audience members weren't opposed at all to Sam succeeding Steve. Or acting like a banker is racist for not giving the Wilsons a loan when his reasons for not doing so were perfectly rational and sound. This isn't a one-way street, dude.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 29, 2023 7:23:14 GMT 1
What came before can't come again. it's the first rule of being creative. I honestly think that beyond all of its consumerist mass appeal, there is something quite special about the MCU. We've had three great phases from them, and somehow we can't be charitable enough to tolerate one mixed phase. What's going to happen is this. Fans won't stop complaining because they feel it's their God given duty and right to complain. And all this will end miserably, and then we'll have nothing. We'll be internet boys haunting the boards talking 'bout dem good ole days. I'm never going to take this period of Hollywood filmmaking for granted, because once the age of the CBM is over - I doubt it will ever come back in any kind of meaningful way ever again. The MCU also became a lot more aggressive with its politics in the fourth Phase. You have to take that into consideration. I feel a lot less inclined to be charitable when I feel like the people making MCU films and shows think of me as a problem just for not being a Liberal. Instead of aiming at general audiences, Marvel Studios is putting a stamp on a lot of its more recent output as "only being for audience members of a certain political ideology, and everyone who doesn't fall in line can fuck off," because non-Liberals are a "problem" meant to "fixed". It is very difficult not to roll my eyes when Falcon and the Winter Soldier goes on and on about how a black man would never be accepted as Captain America when an overwhelming majority of audience members weren't opposed at all to Sam succeeding Steve. Or acting like a banker is racist for not giving the Wilsons a loan when his reasons for not doing so were perfectly rational and sound. This isn't a one-way street, dude. I'm not getting into a political discussion here, but if this were a therapy session, I'd probably declare that we finally had a breakthrough. The root of your problem with Marvel's recent output is that it seems they are purposefully singling you out because of your beliefs. You're being ostracized because of the values, traditions, and ideals you hold sacred. It's getting so bad that maybe one day, you and people who look, think, and feel the way you do might not even exist in these stories. That would be a hell of a thing, wouldn't it? It's not even a two way street. It's a bumper-to-bumper superhighway with X, Y, and Z axes, and we, as a people, don't know if we're coming or going. Marvel and many other popular franchises have indeed pushed too far into the territory of mindlessly propping up political agendas. They have sometimes chosen representation at the expense of offending their audience. It's true, and you'd have to be all in the bag for it to say otherwise. I guess the thing about being liberal or progressive is that you're constantly searching for where "the line" is; to find it, you often have to push into uncomfortable spaces. And "that makes enemies." What should you do about that as a so-called "nonliberal?" Is the answer to that problem to go on message boards and social media ranting and raving about Disney's master plan to have us all reciting Satanic verses from their Woketinomicon? Disney is a corporation, any ideology you perceive is a façade to get more people to spend their money on their goods and services. There are healthy ways to address your grievances. Don't spend your money on their product; at the end of the day, it's just make-believe, and no one will die if you miss the next Marvel movie. We also live in an age where you have direct access to creators to let them know how you feel. Condemning the other side because you feel as if you've been condemned is not productive. I can't offer any useful advice. I've both seen and experienced things that preclude me from the luxury of adopting a political party, philosophy or an ideology. "That which is above is like to that which is below, and that which is below is like to that which is above."
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Post by Grandmaster on Jun 29, 2023 8:58:04 GMT 1
Free healthcare!!!
(Just thought I scare the hell out of you yankees ;-) )
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Jun 29, 2023 11:41:46 GMT 1
Free healthcare!!! (Just thought I scare the hell out of you yankees ;-) ) Guys I can't believe how WOKE and POLITICAL Grandmaster got!
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Post by Merv on Jun 29, 2023 14:11:36 GMT 1
Free healthcare!!! (Just thought I scare the hell out of you yankees ;-) )
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 29, 2023 16:11:38 GMT 1
Free healthcare!!! (Just thought I scare the hell out of you yankees ;-) ) You dirty pinko commie! :-)
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Jun 29, 2023 21:30:13 GMT 1
The MCU also became a lot more aggressive with its politics in the fourth Phase. You have to take that into consideration. I feel a lot less inclined to be charitable when I feel like the people making MCU films and shows think of me as a problem just for not being a Liberal. Instead of aiming at general audiences, Marvel Studios is putting a stamp on a lot of its more recent output as "only being for audience members of a certain political ideology, and everyone who doesn't fall in line can fuck off," because non-Liberals are a "problem" meant to "fixed". It is very difficult not to roll my eyes when Falcon and the Winter Soldier goes on and on about how a black man would never be accepted as Captain America when an overwhelming majority of audience members weren't opposed at all to Sam succeeding Steve. Or acting like a banker is racist for not giving the Wilsons a loan when his reasons for not doing so were perfectly rational and sound. This isn't a one-way street, dude. I'm not getting into a political discussion here, but if this were a therapy session, I'd probably declare that we finally had a breakthrough. The root of your problem with Marvel's recent output is that it seems they are purposefully singling you out because of your beliefs. You're being ostracized because of the values, traditions, and ideals you hold sacred. It's getting so bad that maybe one day, you and people who look, think, and feel the way you do might not even exist in these stories. That would be a hell of a thing, wouldn't it? It's not even a two way street. It's a bumper-to-bumper superhighway with X, Y, and Z axes, and we, as a people, don't know if we're coming or going. Marvel and many other popular franchises have indeed pushed too far into the territory of mindlessly propping up political agendas. They have sometimes chosen representation at the expense of offending their audience. It's true, and you'd have to be all in the bag for it to say otherwise. I guess the thing about being liberal or progressive is that you're constantly searching for where "the line" is; to find it, you often have to push into uncomfortable spaces. And "that makes enemies." What should you do about that as a so-called "nonliberal?" Is the answer to that problem to go on message boards and social media ranting and raving about Disney's master plan to have us all reciting Satanic verses from their Woketinomicon? Disney is a corporation, any ideology you perceive is a façade to get more people to spend their money on their goods and services. There are healthy ways to address your grievances. Don't spend your money on their product; at the end of the day, it's just make-believe, and no one will die if you miss the next Marvel movie. We also live in an age where you have direct access to creators to let them know how you feel. Condemning the other side because you feel as if you've been condemned is not productive. I can't offer any useful advice. I've both seen and experienced things that preclude me from the luxury of adopting a political party, philosophy or an ideology. "That which is above is like to that which is below, and that which is below is like to that which is above." Can you just not be a complete and utterly contemptible blowhard for five minutes? I am getting real sick of turning the other cheek against your jabs. Don't think for a minute that I've overlooked any of the insults you've thrown at me. I was trying to be the bigger man and level with you, but apparently, even attempting to be reasonable with YOU is just not something that can happen. I have had multiple people over the years comment on just what a completely arrogant, obnoxious, despicable person you are. The fact you are incapable of even considering that people who take issue with what Disney and Marvel are doing might have a point says volumes, and don't bother giving me that "I have considered it," because you're lying. You're so arrogant and self-assured in your stances that the very idea that the other fella might have a point is an alien concept to you. Also, wanna know what else is also very unhealthy: telling people to shut up and not express their grievances just because you don't want to hear them. And again, these aren't just my opinion I was talking about. I was paraphrasing what I've heard other people say, too, because I just wanted to stick up to those fans you've decided don't have a legitimate stance just because it doesn't align with yours'. Don't talk down to me about what's unhealthy when you just swallow whatever shit Marvel churns out. Then again, you've always been very good at eating shit. It takes a real addlepated homunculus to say to someone else on a discussion board where opinions are meant to be shared and discussed to tell me to shut up just because you don't like what I have to say. You say I'm the one wanting to "win" this argument, but at least I never told you to stop expressing your opinions. I'm fine with you enjoying the majority of Phase 4 and 5s' content. My entire deal is that people who don't still have a legitimate stance. The reason I went into detail was to offer specific examples to lay out why others and myself feel this way. I am oh so so very sorry that my opinions hurt you so much that you feel compelled to actively belittle and talk down to me. I cannot believe I ever liked or trusted you enough to make you Global Moderator of Knowhere and let you poison me against other users for years. I kept talking to you on here because I hoped I was wrong about you, but apparently not. Then they're actively losing money on a "façade". Here's the thing about corporations and political ideologies. They can't mix. In a dog-eat-dog world where the competition is always ready to devour them, companies NEED every customer and sale they can get. By alienating customers of non-Left leaning ideologies, Disney is killing itself. They are bleeding money right now because they won't back off of the political ideologies they keep pushing. They drew a line right down the middle of their own customer-base and made enough enemies that they are losing bad. The only way to save themselves is if they change and start targeting general audiences again.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 29, 2023 22:35:49 GMT 1
I'm not getting into a political discussion here, but if this were a therapy session, I'd probably declare that we finally had a breakthrough. The root of your problem with Marvel's recent output is that it seems they are purposefully singling you out because of your beliefs. You're being ostracized because of the values, traditions, and ideals you hold sacred. It's getting so bad that maybe one day, you and people who look, think, and feel the way you do might not even exist in these stories. That would be a hell of a thing, wouldn't it? It's not even a two way street. It's a bumper-to-bumper superhighway with X, Y, and Z axes, and we, as a people, don't know if we're coming or going. Marvel and many other popular franchises have indeed pushed too far into the territory of mindlessly propping up political agendas. They have sometimes chosen representation at the expense of offending their audience. It's true, and you'd have to be all in the bag for it to say otherwise. I guess the thing about being liberal or progressive is that you're constantly searching for where "the line" is; to find it, you often have to push into uncomfortable spaces. And "that makes enemies." What should you do about that as a so-called "nonliberal?" Is the answer to that problem to go on message boards and social media ranting and raving about Disney's master plan to have us all reciting Satanic verses from their Woketinomicon? Disney is a corporation, any ideology you perceive is a façade to get more people to spend their money on their goods and services. There are healthy ways to address your grievances. Don't spend your money on their product; at the end of the day, it's just make-believe, and no one will die if you miss the next Marvel movie. We also live in an age where you have direct access to creators to let them know how you feel. Condemning the other side because you feel as if you've been condemned is not productive. I can't offer any useful advice. I've both seen and experienced things that preclude me from the luxury of adopting a political party, philosophy or an ideology. "That which is above is like to that which is below, and that which is below is like to that which is above." Can you just not be a complete and utterly contemptible blowhard for five minutes? I am getting real sick of turning the other cheek against your jabs. Don't think for a minute that I've overlooked any of the insults you've thrown at me. I was trying to be the bigger man and level with you, but apparently, even attempting to be reasonable with YOU is just not something that can happen. I have had multiple people over the years comment on just what a completely arrogant, obnoxious, despicable person you are. The fact you are incapable of even considering that people who take issue with what Disney and Marvel are doing might have a point says volumes, and don't bother giving me that "I have considered it," because you're lying. You're so arrogant and self-assured in your stances that the very idea that the other fella might have a point is an alien concept to you. Also, wanna know what else is also very unhealthy: telling people to shut up and not express their grievances just because you don't want to hear them. And again, these aren't just my opinion I was talking about. I was paraphrasing what I've heard other people say, too, because I just wanted to stick up to those fans you've decided don't have a legitimate stance just because it doesn't align with yours'. Don't talk down to me about what's unhealthy when you just swallow whatever shit Marvel churns out. Then again, you've always been very good at eating shit. It takes a real addlepated homunculus to say to someone else on a discussion board where opinions are meant to be shared and discussed to tell me to shut up just because you don't like what I have to say. You say I'm the one wanting to "win" this argument, but at least I never told you to stop expressing your opinions. I'm fine with you enjoying the majority of Phase 4 and 5s' content. My entire deal is that people who don't still have a legitimate stance. The reason I went into detail was to offer specific examples to lay out why others and myself feel this way. I am oh so so very sorry that my opinions hurt you so much that you feel compelled to actively belittle and talk down to me. I cannot believe I ever liked or trusted you enough to make you Global Moderator of Knowhere and let you poison me against other users for years. I kept talking to you on here because I hoped I was wrong about you, but apparently not. Then they're actively losing money on a "façade". Here's the thing about corporations and political ideologies. They can't mix. In a dog-eat-dog world where the competition is always ready to devour them, companies NEED every customer and sale they can get. By alienating customers of non-Left leaning ideologies, Disney is killing itself. They are bleeding money right now because they won't back off of the political ideologies they keep pushing. They drew a line right down the middle of their own customer-base and made enough enemies that they are losing bad. The only way to save themselves is if they change and start targeting general audiences again.Wow. That was one hell of a wake-up call. Wow. That was one hell of a wake-up call. Listen, I am truly sorry if I offended you. I've had my whole life to realize that I'm a bad actor, but I never really considered how my actions could negatively impact the experience of my fellow community members. Knowing I am hated in the land by so many doesn't sit right with me. I want to make amends. To that aim, I invite anyone inclined to create a poll on the board calling for the total and complete disqualification of Lord Death Man from the Contest of Champions. A simple majority will affect my uncontested withdrawal from the board (and all subsequent spinoffs and subsidiaries) - never to be seen again.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Jun 29, 2023 22:38:19 GMT 1
Can you just not be a complete and utterly contemptible blowhard for five minutes? I am getting real sick of turning the other cheek against your jabs. Don't think for a minute that I've overlooked any of the insults you've thrown at me. I was trying to be the bigger man and level with you, but apparently, even attempting to be reasonable with YOU is just not something that can happen. I have had multiple people over the years comment on just what a completely arrogant, obnoxious, despicable person you are. The fact you are incapable of even considering that people who take issue with what Disney and Marvel are doing might have a point says volumes, and don't bother giving me that "I have considered it," because you're lying. You're so arrogant and self-assured in your stances that the very idea that the other fella might have a point is an alien concept to you. Also, wanna know what else is also very unhealthy: telling people to shut up and not express their grievances just because you don't want to hear them. And again, these aren't just my opinion I was talking about. I was paraphrasing what I've heard other people say, too, because I just wanted to stick up to those fans you've decided don't have a legitimate stance just because it doesn't align with yours'. Don't talk down to me about what's unhealthy when you just swallow whatever shit Marvel churns out. Then again, you've always been very good at eating shit. It takes a real addlepated homunculus to say to someone else on a discussion board where opinions are meant to be shared and discussed to tell me to shut up just because you don't like what I have to say. You say I'm the one wanting to "win" this argument, but at least I never told you to stop expressing your opinions. I'm fine with you enjoying the majority of Phase 4 and 5s' content. My entire deal is that people who don't still have a legitimate stance. The reason I went into detail was to offer specific examples to lay out why others and myself feel this way. I am oh so so very sorry that my opinions hurt you so much that you feel compelled to actively belittle and talk down to me. I cannot believe I ever liked or trusted you enough to make you Global Moderator of Knowhere and let you poison me against other users for years. I kept talking to you on here because I hoped I was wrong about you, but apparently not. Then they're actively losing money on a "façade". Here's the thing about corporations and political ideologies. They can't mix. In a dog-eat-dog world where the competition is always ready to devour them, companies NEED every customer and sale they can get. By alienating customers of non-Left leaning ideologies, Disney is killing itself. They are bleeding money right now because they won't back off of the political ideologies they keep pushing. They drew a line right down the middle of their own customer-base and made enough enemies that they are losing bad. The only way to save themselves is if they change and start targeting general audiences again.Wow. That was one hell of a wake-up call. Wow. That was one hell of a wake-up call. Listen, I am truly sorry if I offended you. I've had my whole life to realize that I'm a bad actor, but I never really considered how my actions could negatively impact the experience of my fellow community members. Knowing I am hated in the land by so many doesn't sit right with me. I want to make amends. To that aim, I invite anyone inclined to create a poll on the board calling for the total and complete disqualification of Lord Death Man from the Contest of Champions. A simple majority will affect my uncontested withdrawal from the board (and all subsequent spinoffs and subsidiaries) - never to be seen again. That's okay. Have your laugh. We're having our own merry laugh at your expense on Knowhere.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 29, 2023 22:53:47 GMT 1
Wow. That was one hell of a wake-up call. Listen, I am truly sorry if I offended you. I've had my whole life to realize that I'm a bad actor, but I never really considered how my actions could negatively impact the experience of my fellow community members. Knowing I am hated in the land by so many doesn't sit right with me. I want to make amends. To that aim, I invite anyone inclined to create a poll on the board calling for the total and complete disqualification of Lord Death Man from the Contest of Champions. A simple majority will affect my uncontested withdrawal from the board (and all subsequent spinoffs and subsidiaries) - never to be seen again. That's okay. Have your laugh. We're having our own merry laugh at your expense on Knowhere. I don't think it's fair that I'm being discussed elsewhere without the ability to defend myself. Would you consider making me a Knowhere board member again, so that I can mount a defense against my detractors? I'd like to address these people discussing me in absentia. It's only fair. If I could explain the special circumstances of my difficult upbringing that contributed to my sociopathy, I'm almost certain I could reach them. Give Death Man a chance!
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Jun 29, 2023 23:11:38 GMT 1
Maybe the Multiverse Saga will end with a full on reboot? Plot twist: Ezra Miller gets revealed as the new Tony Stark in Secret Wars post credit scene! Conspiracy time! Marvel Studios, or more likely Kevin Feige, will use the Multiverse Saga as a way to "Hard Reboot" the MCU at the end and reset the universe so that the Mutants can exist organically in the beginning. Feige will then retire from Marvel Studios and someone else will take over for the new era of the MCU.
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Post by Ghost Ackbar on Jun 29, 2023 23:21:17 GMT 1
Help! An incursion trapped me in the multiverse. In my new universe EVERYONE wears Hawkeye’s Helmet! Its horrible!!
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Post by Indiana Jones on Jun 29, 2023 23:35:35 GMT 1
Help! An incursion trapped me in the multiverse. In my new universe EVERYONE wears Hawkeye’s Helmet! Its horrible!! Whattya mean? Safety first remember?
Oh you meant Clint Barton...
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Post by Chalice_Of_Evil on Jun 29, 2023 23:41:53 GMT 1
Help! An incursion trapped me in the multiverse. In my new universe EVERYONE wears Hawkeye’s Helmet! Its horrible!! You wanted Hawkeye's helmet and the multiverse said "You got it!".
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Jun 30, 2023 0:21:57 GMT 1
That's okay. Have your laugh. We're having our own merry laugh at your expense on Knowhere. I don't think it's fair that I'm being discussed elsewhere without the ability to defend myself. Would you consider making me a Knowhere board member again, so that I can mount a defense against my detractors? I'd like to address these people discussing me in absentia. It's only fair. If I could explain the special circumstances of my difficult upbringing that contributed to my sociopathy, I'm almost certain I could reach them. Give Death Man a chance! It is honestly amazing how someone so lacking in finesse can think he's so clever.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 30, 2023 0:56:51 GMT 1
I don't think it's fair that I'm being discussed elsewhere without the ability to defend myself. Would you consider making me a Knowhere board member again, so that I can mount a defense against my detractors? I'd like to address these people discussing me in absentia. It's only fair. If I could explain the special circumstances of my difficult upbringing that contributed to my sociopathy, I'm almost certain I could reach them. Give Death Man a chance! It is honestly amazing how someone so lacking in finesse can think he's so clever. That's true, but it's not a good enough reason not to like me. I get it; I'm a dick and all. Blah, blah, blah… You can't kick me out of the family because of that. We're gonna get past this. Let's face it, neither of us is going anywhere, and we've been sharing a cyber cell for so long that it's nonsensical to be bickering like this. We're two sides of the same coin. I'm not letting you off the hook. I'm not ignoring you, and I will not slander you. You hurt my feelings with your bombshell of people discussing me. That's not right. Now, the Marvels is coming out soonish, and I'm anxiously awaiting all of your notes on that release. We're not going to not talk about this one. You're gonna do your angry man thing, and I'm going to be not subtle and whatnot - and the wheel will keep turning. You can be mean and abusive to me if you want. It's fine, but I will not let you hold out on me.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Jun 30, 2023 1:11:17 GMT 1
It is honestly amazing how someone so lacking in finesse can think he's so clever. That's true, but it's not a good enough reason not to like me. I get it; I'm a dick and all. Blah, blah, blah… You can't kick me out of the family because of that. We're gonna get past this. Let's face it, neither of us is going anywhere, and we've been sharing a cyber cell for so long that it's nonsensical to be bickering like this. We're two sides of the same coin. I'm not letting you off the hook. I'm not ignoring you, and I will not slander you. You hurt my feelings with your bombshell of people discussing me. That's not right. Now, the Marvels is coming out soonish, and I'm anxiously awaiting all of your notes on that release. We're not going to not talk about this one. You're gonna do your angry man thing, and I'm going to be not subtle and whatnot - and the wheel will keep turning. You can be mean and abusive to me if you want. It's fine, but I will not let you hold out on me. No, I've grown to dislike you because you think you've above everyone else and love making snide comments at people who don't agree with everything you say. Actually, I'm fully anticipating I will like The Marvels. The trailer looks great. Considering your whole rhetoric of "people are who unhappy with Disney and Marvel sacrificing quality for gimmicks and agenda-pushing should just shut up," you probably shouldn't be talking about what is or isn't right. Hell, you even admitted that's exactly what they're doing, and you still choose to blame fans for taking exception to it instead even considering holding Marvel Studios accountable in any way. The MCU did some amazing things for the genre, but no one earns the right to talk down to their audience or relentlessly preach at them about how they're evil and ignorant for not being progressives. Or how they're evil, privileged, and ignorant for being men. That's not experimentation or evolution of the genre. That's just being preachy and regressive.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 30, 2023 1:30:01 GMT 1
That's true, but it's not a good enough reason not to like me. I get it; I'm a dick and all. Blah, blah, blah… You can't kick me out of the family because of that. We're gonna get past this. Let's face it, neither of us is going anywhere, and we've been sharing a cyber cell for so long that it's nonsensical to be bickering like this. We're two sides of the same coin. I'm not letting you off the hook. I'm not ignoring you, and I will not slander you. You hurt my feelings with your bombshell of people discussing me. That's not right. Now, the Marvels is coming out soonish, and I'm anxiously awaiting all of your notes on that release. We're not going to not talk about this one. You're gonna do your angry man thing, and I'm going to be not subtle and whatnot - and the wheel will keep turning. You can be mean and abusive to me if you want. It's fine, but I will not let you hold out on me. No, I've grown to dislike you because you think you've above everyone else and love making snide comments at people who don't agree with everything you say. Actually, I'm fully anticipating I will like The Marvels. The trailer looks great. Considering your whole rhetoric of "people are who unhappy with Disney and Marvel sacrificing quality for gimmicks and agenda-pushing should just shut up," you probably shouldn't be talking about what is or isn't right. Hell, you even admitted that's exactly what they're doing, and you still choose to blame fans for taking exception to it. The MCU did some amazing things for the genre, but no one earns the right to talk down to their audience or relentlessly preach at them about how they're evil and ignorant for not being progressives. Or how they're evil, privileged, and ignorant for being men. That's not experimentation or evolution of the genre. That's just being preachy and regressive. The fact She-Hulk will not be getting a second season says a lot about how audiences responded to its rhetoric. Alright, already… Let's not lapse into the old dynamic. You've exposed me, I'm a regular Joe, just like everybody else, and I'm not Little Lord Fauntleroy. We're building bridges here, not blowing them up. But I think you should consider the idea that you're an angry person who is a little intolerant sometimes. I'll refrain from saying that anyone should quit the fandom if you agree that Disney has the legal right to do what they want with their IP - even if it lands them in bankruptcy court.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Jun 30, 2023 1:49:31 GMT 1
No, I've grown to dislike you because you think you've above everyone else and love making snide comments at people who don't agree with everything you say. Actually, I'm fully anticipating I will like The Marvels. The trailer looks great. Considering your whole rhetoric of "people are who unhappy with Disney and Marvel sacrificing quality for gimmicks and agenda-pushing should just shut up," you probably shouldn't be talking about what is or isn't right. Hell, you even admitted that's exactly what they're doing, and you still choose to blame fans for taking exception to it. The MCU did some amazing things for the genre, but no one earns the right to talk down to their audience or relentlessly preach at them about how they're evil and ignorant for not being progressives. Or how they're evil, privileged, and ignorant for being men. That's not experimentation or evolution of the genre. That's just being preachy and regressive. The fact She-Hulk will not be getting a second season says a lot about how audiences responded to its rhetoric. Alright, already… Let's not lapse into the old dynamic. You've exposed me, I'm a regular Joe, just like everybody else, and I'm not Little Lord Fauntleroy. We're building bridges here, not blowing them up. But I think you should consider the idea that you're an angry person who is a little intolerant sometimes. I'll refrain from saying that anyone should quit the fandom if you agree that Disney has the legal right to do what they want with their IP - even if it lands them in bankruptcy court. Fair enough. Yes, Disney has the legal right to do what they want with their properties. That said, I find it baffling that they insist on making decisions that have continually lose them money. I get that you want to support artists and that Marvel is a life-long passion of yours'. I love Marvel, too, and I want to support artists, too, but not at the expense of the people whose money make artists' creations possible. Currently, Hollywood does not want to make movies people want to see. They make movies they want people to want to see. I'm afraid that's not how the business-customer relationship works. It just isn't.
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