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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 4:56:34 GMT 1
Maybe for now..you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet I mean how much confidence did you have before? Just stay the course? Can you be certain they're breaking the right eggs? I believe so
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Aug 7, 2022 5:10:28 GMT 1
Are they? On Marvel's end, only Spider-Man and other X-Men are more well known than the X-Women, and Black Widow was probably about as well-known as Ironman before the films made him into a legend. Sue Storm, Black Cat, and Scarlet Witch are some of the most well-known Marvel characters, period. Silver Sable is also a very popular character with a strong following, as are the Wasp, She-Hulk, and many of the others. And on DC's ends, you have Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn, Hawkgirl, Starfire, Raven, Zatanna, Black Canary, Batgirl, Supergirl, and a bunch that are more well-known than most of the members of the Suicide Squad, Aquaman prior to his movie, Cyborg, Shazam before his movie, and are definitely more popular than Blue Beetle and any number of the dudes who are getting movies. The ladies of the comic book world are NOT second class characters compared to the guys anymore, and haven't been for a long time. The fact so many films are only headed by the dudes is a clear bias. Are you really telling me all those are bigger than Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Joker etc? Cmon man.. Not saying there arent popular female characters but those are A-Game Hawkgirl, Zatanna, Raven and Starfire? Really?...
Show me where in the post I said that. I said that these female characters are more or as popular as some of the guys who have gotten movies, not all of them. I was very clear in what I was talking about. So, you c'mon, man. Yeah, and those A-game characters are only going to be in so many films made by both companies if they're both going to have unified universes now (assuming DC actually can get its rear in gear). As with the MCU during Phase 1-3, Tony Stark, Captain America, and Thor needed a lot of other characters either in their movies, or in other movies. Hawkgirl, Zatanna, Raven, and Starfire were taken more seriously by fans and the general public than Aquaman prior to his movie. That's why I listed them. Not because of how they stack up against Superman.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 5:12:38 GMT 1
Are you really telling me all those are bigger than Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Joker etc? Cmon man.. Not saying there arent popular female characters but those are A-Game Hawkgirl, Zatanna, Raven and Starfire? Really?...
Show me where in the post I said that. I said that these female characters are more or as popular as some of the guys who have gotten movies, not all of them. I was very clear in what I was talking about. So, you c'mon, man. Yeah, and those A-game characters are only going to be in so many films made by both companies if they're both going to have unified universes now (assuming DC actually can get its rear in gear). As with the MCU during Phase 1-3, Tony Stark, Captain America, and Thor needed a lot of other characters either in their movies, or in other movies. Hawkgirl, Zatanna, Raven, and Starfire were taken more seriously by fans and the general public than Aquaman prior to his movie. That's why I listed them. Not because of how they stack up against Superman. Well, then you should understand the content of what I said to Chalice
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Aug 7, 2022 5:17:59 GMT 1
Show me where in the post I said that. I said that these female characters are more or as popular as some of the guys who have gotten movies, not all of them. I was very clear in what I was talking about. So, you c'mon, man. Yeah, and those A-game characters are only going to be in so many films made by both companies if they're both going to have unified universes now (assuming DC actually can get its rear in gear). As with the MCU during Phase 1-3, Tony Stark, Captain America, and Thor needed a lot of other characters either in their movies, or in other movies. Hawkgirl, Zatanna, Raven, and Starfire were taken more seriously by fans and the general public than Aquaman prior to his movie. That's why I listed them. Not because of how they stack up against Superman. Well, then you should understand the content of what I said to Chalice I did, and I was just pointing out that the superheroines of Marvel and DC aren't unpopular, obscure names no one has ever heard of, and are in fact, as popular as many of their male counterparts who have gotten movies, and they haven't. Thanks to failures like Supergirl in the past, female led superheroes had a stigma in the business that they can't be hits, and that's what's held them back, not any actual lack of interest on the audience's part. If you made a good Zatanna movie today, people would go see it. If you made a good Black Cat movies today, people would go see it. It's not that they are less known or deserve movies less, but they are still fighting a battle they've only recently scores some wins in through Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel Speaking of, if Captain Marvel can rake in a billion, so can any other female led superhero movie, even if the character is unknown. And even if the character is unknown, that should not stop the studio, considering that using the lesser known, second stringers in clever ways is what got the MCU where it is today. So from where I'm sitting, bring on the female led superheroes.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 5:22:08 GMT 1
Well, then you should understand the content of what I said to Chalice I did, and I was just pointing out that the superheroines of Marvel and DC aren't unpopular, obscure names no one has ever heard of, and are in fact, as popular as many of their male counterparts who have gotten movies, and they haven't. Thanks to failures like Supergirl in the past, female led superheroes had a stigma in the business that they can't be hits, and that's what's held them back, not any actual lack of interest on the audience's part. If you made a good Zatanna movie today, people would go see it. If you made a good Black Cat movies today, people would go see it. It's not that they are less known or deserve movies less, but they are still fighting a battle they've only recently scores some wins in through Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel Speaking of, if Captain Marvel can rake in a billion, so can any other female led superhero movie, even if the character is unknown. And even if the character is unknown, that should not stop the studio, considering that using the lesser known, second stringers in clever ways is what got the MCU where it is today. So from where I'm sitting, bring on the female led superheroes. True but the male ones are still the core money makers. Hell, bring on good Black Canary, Harley Quinn, Zatanna films Batman and Spider-Man are also the top merchandisers
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Aug 7, 2022 5:25:39 GMT 1
I did, and I was just pointing out that the superheroines of Marvel and DC aren't unpopular, obscure names no one has ever heard of, and are in fact, as popular as many of their male counterparts who have gotten movies, and they haven't. Thanks to failures like Supergirl in the past, female led superheroes had a stigma in the business that they can't be hits, and that's what's held them back, not any actual lack of interest on the audience's part. If you made a good Zatanna movie today, people would go see it. If you made a good Black Cat movies today, people would go see it. It's not that they are less known or deserve movies less, but they are still fighting a battle they've only recently scores some wins in through Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel Speaking of, if Captain Marvel can rake in a billion, so can any other female led superhero movie, even if the character is unknown. And even if the character is unknown, that should not stop the studio, considering that using the lesser known, second stringers in clever ways is what got the MCU where it is today. So from where I'm sitting, bring on the female led superheroes. True but the male ones are still the core money makers. Hell, bring on good Black Canary, Harley Quinn, Zatanna films Batman and Spider-Man are also the top merchandisers
I fully expect Batman, Superman, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman will take top priority, but in this new DC film universe, I really hope they mix in movies about the gals or feature more of the gals in their roster.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 5:40:25 GMT 1
True but the male ones are still the core money makers. Hell, bring on good Black Canary, Harley Quinn, Zatanna films Batman and Spider-Man are also the top merchandisers
I fully expect Batman, Superman, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman will take top priority, but in this new DC film universe, I really hope they mix in movies about the gals or feature more of the gals in their roster. Sure, I would also love to see a Green Arrow movie. The prison story seemed really cool and had potential I honestly wouldntve minded if they made a Huntress movie from Birds Of Prey. Her and Harley were the only good things about it imo. Black Mask was decent enough, just poorly used
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Aug 7, 2022 5:54:01 GMT 1
I fully expect Batman, Superman, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman will take top priority, but in this new DC film universe, I really hope they mix in movies about the gals or feature more of the gals in their roster. Sure, I would also love to see a Green Arrow movie. The prison story seemed really cool and had potential I honestly wouldntve minded if they made a Huntress movie from Birds Of Prey. Her and Harley were the only good things about it imo. Black Mask was decent enough, just poorly used
Not as his first outing, personally speaking, but sure. Birds of Prey was just a misfire of a movie, unfortunately. All the hyperfixation of "girl power" being shoved in the audience's face got tedious quickly and really, in a film about a female group of crime fighters, the girl power kinda speaks for itself. And hyping up Black Mask as a "bad man who needs to be taught a lesson by the ladies" probably turned off a lot of people who might have otherwise gone to see it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 11:44:14 GMT 1
Sure, I would also love to see a Green Arrow movie. The prison story seemed really cool and had potential I honestly wouldntve minded if they made a Huntress movie from Birds Of Prey. Her and Harley were the only good things about it imo. Black Mask was decent enough, just poorly used
Not as his first outing, personally speaking, but sure. Birds of Prey was just a misfire of a movie, unfortunately. All the hyperfixation of "girl power" being shoved in the audience's face got tedious quickly and really, in a film about a female group of crime fighters, the girl power kinda speaks for itself. And hyping up Black Mask as a "bad man who needs to be taught a lesson by the ladies" probably turned off a lot of people who might have otherwise gone to see it. True I totally forgot about the political stuff lol. Well, at least it wasnt as bad as that controversial Mockingbird comic and boy was that bad but birds of prey was still quite disappointing
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 7, 2022 13:36:50 GMT 1
We’ve batted this around a little already but I wanted to add that the prospect of DC having a real plan is exciting. What that plan looks like though and if it’s any more coherent than the plans they’ve had before, we’ll see.
But I had another idea as well, and was reminded of it by Nintendo of all things, which at one time was the undisputed king of all video game systems, and since then has found a highly successful niche of speaking to family and younger audience games while PlayStation takes the older demographic. I think DC should employee a similar strategy. Just go for the market Marvel isn’t in. Perhaps that’s the gritty bloody market. Perhaps it’s something different. Fine. Take it and make it their own whatever it is. That’s how you sell.
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Post by Merv on Aug 7, 2022 16:32:57 GMT 1
We’ve batted this around a little already but I wanted to add that the prospect of DC having a real plan is exciting. What that plan looks like though and if it’s any more coherent than the plans they’ve had before, we’ll see. But I had another idea as well, and was reminded of it by Nintendo of all things, which at one time was the undisputed king of all video game systems, and since then has found a highly successful niche of speaking to family and younger audience games while PlayStation takes the older demographic. I think DC should employee a similar strategy. Just go for the market Marvel isn’t in. Perhaps that’s the gritty bloody market. Perhaps it’s something different. Fine. Take it and make it their own whatever it is. That’s how you sell. It’s nice in theory but the big problem is…it’s the same market. I’m in agreeable that I prefer they have their own tone. I don’t even want all the MCU films to feel the same tonally, let alone adding a whole other franchise to the mix. But I think they have to pull from the same market if they want to be successful. But I do think they should make DC movies for DC comics tho. Take it one project at a time. Don’t commit to so much that you can’t call an audible if need be. At least until they get their footing. Treat the mixed bag of DCEU as a test run. They’ve got data of what worked and what didn’t. Find a common thread and don’t stray too far until you get your feet set. Don’t worry about comparing yourself to the MCU, just work on telling a good DC story.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 17:51:49 GMT 1
We’ve batted this around a little already but I wanted to add that the prospect of DC having a real plan is exciting. What that plan looks like though and if it’s any more coherent than the plans they’ve had before, we’ll see. But I had another idea as well, and was reminded of it by Nintendo of all things, which at one time was the undisputed king of all video game systems, and since then has found a highly successful niche of speaking to family and younger audience games while PlayStation takes the older demographic. I think DC should employee a similar strategy. Just go for the market Marvel isn’t in. Perhaps that’s the gritty bloody market. Perhaps it’s something different. Fine. Take it and make it their own whatever it is. That’s how you sell. I agree. Everyone wants DC to copy Marvel, but I don’t think that’s a great strategy. It’s like, when I drink cola I always drink Coke. Sometimes I drink Sprite, or Fanta but the one thing I never do is drink Pepsi. I’m enjoying my Marvel cola. I don’t need a second knock off one. I’d rather have an ice cold bottle of root beer Batman or lemon lime Lantern I think the niche is in doing what a shared universe can’t do on a regular basis, and that’s in making really unique solo movies. The Dark Knight and Joker couldn’t exist in a shared universe. The Batman would be a hard fit too. So I say they should keep hiring directors like that to embrace unique visions for all their characters. The tone will be wildly different for each one- sometimes grounded, sometimes fantastical, but always bold and different. They just need to pick their talent wisely to ensure a higher rate of success than the current DC lineup.
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Aug 7, 2022 19:50:20 GMT 1
if "no plan at all" is going to give me films like JOKER, TDK, and The Batman, then I am totally fine with that
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 20:46:30 GMT 1
if "no plan at all" is going to give me films like JOKER, TDK, and The Batman, then I am totally fine with that This guy gets it! I was saying the same thing on v2 yesterday. I don’t need a whole shared universe with 30 DC movies. Just give me a movie as good as those 3 every year or two and I’m good!
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 7, 2022 21:26:44 GMT 1
We’ve batted this around a little already but I wanted to add that the prospect of DC having a real plan is exciting. What that plan looks like though and if it’s any more coherent than the plans they’ve had before, we’ll see. But I had another idea as well, and was reminded of it by Nintendo of all things, which at one time was the undisputed king of all video game systems, and since then has found a highly successful niche of speaking to family and younger audience games while PlayStation takes the older demographic. I think DC should employee a similar strategy. Just go for the market Marvel isn’t in. Perhaps that’s the gritty bloody market. Perhaps it’s something different. Fine. Take it and make it their own whatever it is. That’s how you sell. I agree. Everyone wants DC to copy Marvel, but I don’t think that’s a great strategy. It’s like, when I drink cola I always drink Coke. Sometimes I drink Sprite, or Fanta but the one thing I never do is drink Pepsi. I’m enjoying my Marvel cola. I don’t need a second knock off one. I’d rather have an ice cold bottle of root beer Batman or lemon lime Lantern I think the niche is in doing what a shared universe can’t do on a regular basis, and that’s in making really unique solo movies. The Dark Knight and Joker couldn’t exist in a shared universe. The Batman would be a hard fit too. So I say they should keep hiring directors like that to embrace unique visions for all their characters. The tone will be wildly different for each one- sometimes grounded, sometimes fantastical, but always bold and different. They just need to pick their talent wisely to ensure a higher rate of success than the current DC lineup. Ill be honest I’m up for whatever style they want to try but if it’s just a bunch of independent unrelated films they won’t gain a commitment from me. I’ll see them if I’m interested but I feel like it’s a lost opportunity not to do more with it in terms of continuity.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 21:42:29 GMT 1
I agree. Everyone wants DC to copy Marvel, but I don’t think that’s a great strategy. It’s like, when I drink cola I always drink Coke. Sometimes I drink Sprite, or Fanta but the one thing I never do is drink Pepsi. I’m enjoying my Marvel cola. I don’t need a second knock off one. I’d rather have an ice cold bottle of root beer Batman or lemon lime Lantern I think the niche is in doing what a shared universe can’t do on a regular basis, and that’s in making really unique solo movies. The Dark Knight and Joker couldn’t exist in a shared universe. The Batman would be a hard fit too. So I say they should keep hiring directors like that to embrace unique visions for all their characters. The tone will be wildly different for each one- sometimes grounded, sometimes fantastical, but always bold and different. They just need to pick their talent wisely to ensure a higher rate of success than the current DC lineup. Ill be honest I’m up for whatever style they want to try but I’d it’s just a bunch of independent unrelated films they won’t gain a commitment from me. I’ll see them if I’m interested but I feel like it’s a list opportunity not to do more with it in terms of continuity. I would certainly be interested in a Justice League movie, but to me Batman is infinitely more interesting in his own world. And, to a lesser extent, the same goes for Superman. Also, wouldn’t DC’s big cosmic threats like Darkseid just come off as redundant after Thanos? I don’t need to see a team of earth’s mightiest heroes fighting a big purple dude from space again. I just saw that!
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 7, 2022 21:51:34 GMT 1
Ill be honest I’m up for whatever style they want to try but I’d it’s just a bunch of independent unrelated films they won’t gain a commitment from me. I’ll see them if I’m interested but I feel like it’s a list opportunity not to do more with it in terms of continuity. I would certainly be interested in a Justice League movie, but to me Batman is infinitely more interesting in his own world. And, to a lesser extent, the same goes for Superman. Also, wouldn’t DC’s big cosmic threats like Darkseid just come off as redundant after Thanos? I don’t need to see a team of earth’s mightiest heroes fighting a big purple dude from space again. I just saw that! this is largely why I don’t care much about DC. Im over Batman. I was bored of Superman 30 years ago. Darkseid doesn’t interest me. Im really not sure what they could ever do, but I would be up for an ongoing story across multiple franchises in some sort of other style. If they aren’t doing that, then IDK
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 22:18:35 GMT 1
I would certainly be interested in a Justice League movie, but to me Batman is infinitely more interesting in his own world. And, to a lesser extent, the same goes for Superman. Also, wouldn’t DC’s big cosmic threats like Darkseid just come off as redundant after Thanos? I don’t need to see a team of earth’s mightiest heroes fighting a big purple dude from space again. I just saw that! this is largely why I don’t care much about DC. Im over Batman. I was bored of Superman 30 years ago. Darkseid doesn’t interest me. Im really not sure what they could ever do, but I would be up for an ongoing story across multiple franchises in some sort of other style. If they aren’t doing that, then IDK You should check out Krypton and Superman and Lois. You might change your mind Did you ever catch Smallville?
Over Batman?! How the f is that possible?!!!!
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 7, 2022 22:50:40 GMT 1
this is largely why I don’t care much about DC. Im over Batman. I was bored of Superman 30 years ago. Darkseid doesn’t interest me. Im really not sure what they could ever do, but I would be up for an ongoing story across multiple franchises in some sort of other style. If they aren’t doing that, then IDK You should check out Krypton and Superman and Lois. You might change your mind Did you ever catch Smallville?
Over Batman?! How the f is that possible?!!!!
I tried smallville back in the day. Didn’t catch on. As far as Batman goes, it’s mostly that they rely on him far too much. Everything is Batman. Multiple versions, Gotham spin-offs, catwoman, batgirl, Batwoman, joker. They couldn’t even get through the latest reboot without having another new joker show up. I’m out. For good. If they stopped right now I might be interested again in ten years but they won’t.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 22:52:25 GMT 1
We’ve batted this around a little already but I wanted to add that the prospect of DC having a real plan is exciting. What that plan looks like though and if it’s any more coherent than the plans they’ve had before, we’ll see. But I had another idea as well, and was reminded of it by Nintendo of all things, which at one time was the undisputed king of all video game systems, and since then has found a highly successful niche of speaking to family and younger audience games while PlayStation takes the older demographic. I think DC should employee a similar strategy. Just go for the market Marvel isn’t in. Perhaps that’s the gritty bloody market. Perhaps it’s something different. Fine. Take it and make it their own whatever it is. That’s how you sell. The Dark Knight and Joker couldn’t exist in a shared universe. Youre not the first to say this but I think it could have been possible re dark knight. I believe Nolan requested not to have a shared universe and what Nolan asks or orders ha, Nolan gets. Just dont make Metropolis border Gotham City lol..or hire Zack Snyder or have Nic Cage play Superman!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 22:57:12 GMT 1
The Dark Knight and Joker couldn’t exist in a shared universe. Youre not the first to say this but I think it could have been possible re dark knight. I believe Nolan requested not to have a shared universe and what Nolan asks or orders ha, Nolan gets. Just dont make Metropolis border Gotham City lol..or hire Zack Snyder or have Nic Cage play Superman! I think Pattinson’s Battinson could be maybe be folded into a new DCECU canon. But I just worry that they’ll Iron Man 2 that muthafucker and force in a bunch of shared universe set up into the sequel.
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Aug 7, 2022 23:06:23 GMT 1
Youre not the first to say this but I think it could have been possible re dark knight. I believe Nolan requested not to have a shared universe and what Nolan asks or orders ha, Nolan gets. Just dont make Metropolis border Gotham City lol..or hire Zack Snyder or have Nic Cage play Superman! I think Pattinson’s Battinson could be maybe be folded into a new DCECU canon. But I just worry that they’ll Iron Man 2 that muthafucker and force in a bunch of shared universe set up into the sequel. Which is a fair concern. But i can't see Matt Reeves agreeing to doing something like that if they tried to force it. It's a shame that they made Bruce Wayne a kid in Joker. I wouldn't mind that joker being part of The Batman universe.
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Aug 7, 2022 23:15:02 GMT 1
Hot take but if they do try and do something similar like the MCU, i hope they leave Bruce Wayne/Batman. If they really want someone to fill that kind of role they should use Kathy Kane/Batwoman.
I know that with the character being a lesbian there will be some people who will cry about DC being "Woke" again but it would be better than another Bruce Wayne/Batman story.
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Post by AQUA RAPTOR! on Aug 8, 2022 0:19:38 GMT 1
We’ve batted this around a little already but I wanted to add that the prospect of DC having a real plan is exciting. What that plan looks like though and if it’s any more coherent than the plans they’ve had before, we’ll see. But I had another idea as well, and was reminded of it by Nintendo of all things, which at one time was the undisputed king of all video game systems, and since then has found a highly successful niche of speaking to family and younger audience games while PlayStation takes the older demographic. I think DC should employee a similar strategy. Just go for the market Marvel isn’t in. Perhaps that’s the gritty bloody market. Perhaps it’s something different. Fine. Take it and make it their own whatever it is. That’s how you sell. I agree. Everyone wants DC to copy Marvel, but I don’t think that’s a great strategy. It’s like, when I drink cola I always drink Coke. Sometimes I drink Sprite, or Fanta but the one thing I never do is drink Pepsi. I’m enjoying my Marvel cola. I don’t need a second knock off one. I’d rather have an ice cold bottle of root beer Batman or lemon lime Lantern I think the niche is in doing what a shared universe can’t do on a regular basis, and that’s in making really unique solo movies. The Dark Knight and Joker couldn’t exist in a shared universe. The Batman would be a hard fit too. So I say they should keep hiring directors like that to embrace unique visions for all their characters. The tone will be wildly different for each one- sometimes grounded, sometimes fantastical, but always bold and different. They just need to pick their talent wisely to ensure a higher rate of success than the current DC lineup. Maybe they can at least try to honor these characters and their stories before jumping straight to the "just use them as a coat of paint to put over whatever script the director has been shopping around anyway, instead of trying to make a movie about the character" approach. As long as they tell different stories, they won't be copying Marvel. DC and Marvel are stylistically different enough, I think it'd be easy for them both to have their own shared universes without stepping on each other's toes so long as they're not doing the same things at the same time. I still really want a shared universe for DC like we used to see with the DCAU. The DCAU was fundamentally different from the MCU in many regards despite also being a shared universe. They can do a shared universe while making it distinct from the MCU. Kang is the next big MCU baddies, right? Well, what if a new DC shared universe did the Legion of Doom, and didn't lean into time travel or dimension hopping, keeping it centered in one universe? A big villain team up is one thing the MCU hasn't tried yet that they could certainly do and it'd be very different from anything going on in Phase 4. I'd rather they picked solid filmmakers who respect these stories and characters and want to adapt them to the big screen, especially since many of them have never gotten the chance to shine on the big screen. DC characters do not exist just for whatever filmmaker to throw out the fundamentals of their character and themes and do whatever they want with them. There are a lot of fans of many of these characters, and we also deserve to see our favorites adapted to screen in a way that respects the spirit of the characters and their stories.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Aug 11, 2022 18:24:43 GMT 1
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