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Post by AQUA CAT! on Jul 10, 2023 23:02:54 GMT 1
We are now 3 episodes into season 2. The first 3 episodes all fall in the range between ok and total shit (you guess which is which). Not a great start but I'm hopeful. But I have 2 general questions. 1. When are we going to see some new worlds in this show titled "Strange New Worlds"? Almost every episode is about The Federation or Star Fleet or Earth. Lets get out on the edge of known space and do some exploring. 2. Are there any main characters who just had a plain old boring life before they joined Star Fleet? This is the Federation which is supposed to be as close to utopia as you can get after all. Why do modern "writers" think every character has to have some tragic back story in order to be interesting? SMH. Boimler. I totally agree with you. The only character that comes to my mind is Boimler across both shows. For a while I thought about T'endi till some stuff from her past came up. Boimler right now I think is the only guy who's just a guy from a vineyard in Modesto. I've always liked him but I like him even more now because he's a guy whose values drew him to Starfleet. Interesting guy, normal life until Starfleet.
By both shows I mean SNW and Lower Decks. Still haven't gotten into Picard or Discovery.
I would also like some strange new worlds.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Aug 14, 2023 21:02:33 GMT 1
Good season finale.
I have mixed feelings about the Gorn but I think the bait and switch is the hatchling Gorn we see are the babies. It would account for why the Gorn onscreen seem like mindless aliens but also have warp capable star ships and social infrastructures.
Ambitious but not unwelcome to leave on a cliffhanger. That's usually reserved for the 3rd season when they're a little more sure about being renewed.
Glad they did something meaningful with Erica. I like her, but she's probably the last of the main crew to grow on me. She's there though, and it's good they used her as much as they did in this episode.
Maybe it's because episodes 7-8 dropped in the same week but it seems too soon for the season to end.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Aug 14, 2023 21:38:49 GMT 1
Good season finale.
I have mixed feelings about the Gorn but I think the bait and switch is the hatchling Gorn we see are the babies. It would account for why the Gorn onscreen seem like mindless aliens but also have warp capable star ships and social infrastructures.
Ambitious but not unwelcome to leave on a cliffhanger. That's usually reserved for the 3rd season when they're a little more sure about being renewed.
Glad they did something meaningful with Erica. I like her, but she's probably the last of the main crew to grow on me. She's there though, and it's good they used her as much as they did in this episode.
Maybe it's because episodes 7-8 dropped in the same week but it seems too soon for the season to end.
Glad to hear you liked the season finale. I was mixed on it, but I still found it entertaining to watch. I'm not too fond of this new interpretation of the Gorn, but in all fairness, I was never a hardcore Gorn fan. I don't think anyone in the fandom that I know is, which makes their selection as the recurring villain a bit puzzling. It was good to see them use Erica more in the finale (and the season in general), but I still don't feel like I know her all that well. I've made peace with all of the canon violations by finally accepting that the modern era of Star Trek is a hard reboot of the franchise with all new interpretations of the characters and events from the old universe (as opposed to the softer robots that TNG and ENT represented or being an actual continuation of TOS).
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Aug 14, 2023 21:40:38 GMT 1
The show is ok despite its many flaws. A good cast makes up for a lot of issues.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Aug 14, 2023 22:07:28 GMT 1
Good season finale.
I have mixed feelings about the Gorn but I think the bait and switch is the hatchling Gorn we see are the babies. It would account for why the Gorn onscreen seem like mindless aliens but also have warp capable star ships and social infrastructures.
Ambitious but not unwelcome to leave on a cliffhanger. That's usually reserved for the 3rd season when they're a little more sure about being renewed.
Glad they did something meaningful with Erica. I like her, but she's probably the last of the main crew to grow on me. She's there though, and it's good they used her as much as they did in this episode.
Maybe it's because episodes 7-8 dropped in the same week but it seems too soon for the season to end.
Glad to hear you liked the season finale. I was mixed on it, but I still found it entertaining to watch. I'm not too fond of this new interpretation of the Gorn, but in all fairness, I was never a hardcore Gorn fan. I don't think anyone in the fandom that I know is, which makes their selection as the recurring villain a bit puzzling. It was good to see them use Erica more in the finale (and the season in general), but I still don't feel like I know her all that well. I've made peace with all of the canon violations by finally accepting that the modern era of Star Trek is a hard reboot of the franchise with all new interpretations of the characters and events from the old universe (as opposed to the softer robots that TNG and ENT represented or being an actual continuation of TOS). It's strange to be sure. The Gorn look like Aliens, or at least the remind me of Xenomorphs, or the Zerg frm Starcraft.
I think they could/should make more use of the Orions. I think they'd make a better big bad. They look great onscreen. They'd make a better recurring villain because they have a cultural ideology that clashes with Starfleet, and they talk. Talking is a big one.
Years ago, I attended (as a guest) a special screening of the series finale of Star Trek: Discovery. I don't watch the show, but my friend who works in film and TV brought me in. There was a Q and A with some of the show runners, and they addressed the gap in technology by saying look, it's Star Trek. Even if it's a hundred years in the past they can't go back to TOS era colour palettes and bridge designs. I get it. They need to do better than that.
This was someone on the panel addressing an audience member who asked about the contrast.
I agree with Taylor too. The show has issues but the cast really helps. There ain't a sketch artist alive who can capture the look on my face when they started singing in episode 9.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Aug 14, 2023 22:50:51 GMT 1
Glad to hear you liked the season finale. I was mixed on it, but I still found it entertaining to watch. I'm not too fond of this new interpretation of the Gorn, but in all fairness, I was never a hardcore Gorn fan. I don't think anyone in the fandom that I know is, which makes their selection as the recurring villain a bit puzzling. It was good to see them use Erica more in the finale (and the season in general), but I still don't feel like I know her all that well. I've made peace with all of the canon violations by finally accepting that the modern era of Star Trek is a hard reboot of the franchise with all new interpretations of the characters and events from the old universe (as opposed to the softer robots that TNG and ENT represented or being an actual continuation of TOS). It's strange to be sure. The Gorn look like Aliens, or at least the remind me of Xenomorphs, or the Zerg frm Starcraft.
I think they could/should make more use of the Orions. I think they'd make a better big bad. They look great onscreen. They'd make a better recurring villain because they have a cultural ideology that clashes with Starfleet, and they talk. Talking is a big one.
Years ago, I attended (as a guest) a special screening of the series finale of Star Trek: Discovery. I don't watch the show, but my friend who works in film and TV brought me in. There was a Q and A with some of the show runners, and they addressed the gap in technology by saying look, it's Star Trek. Even if it's a hundred years in the past they can't go back to TOS era colour palettes and bridge designs. I get it. They need to do better than that.
This was someone on the panel addressing an audience member who asked about the contrast.
I agree with Taylor too. The show has issues but the cast really helps. There ain't a sketch artist alive who can capture the look on my face when they started singing in episode 9.
You've touched on some compelling points that resonate with me deeply. The modern-day Gorn feels unoriginal with their glaring resemblance to the Xenomorph lifecycle, especially in their mindless violence, stalking behavior, and embryo implantation. The fact that Gorn actually eat provides a sliver of distinction from the Xenomorphs. Xenomorphs don't seem to have any specific nutritional requirements. On the topic of potential antagonists, yes, the Orions present an excellent opportunity for compelling drama. Thinking of early Starfleet history, delving into the initial conflicts between Earth and Romulus is more captivating to me. A narrative that utilizes a warm war that combines espionage with hit-and-run conventional warfare would return Star Trek to its exalted position in speculative sci-fi. Regarding the production design of "Discovery" and "Strange New Worlds," I remain skeptical. The justification given by producers for the hyper-advanced aesthetics doesn't sit well with me, especially when considering the longstanding continuity of the Star Trek universe. In this aspect, one can't help but commend Star Wars. Lucasfilm, irrespective of other criticisms, has been laudable in preserving the design language from the original films in their newer releases. Kirk's Enterprise was a thing of beauty! The molded plastics, tactile switches, and streamlined aesthetics are sorely missed. There had to be a way to showcase this incredible design language for the modern age without entirely detaching from its iconic roots. "Enterprise" stands out as a beacon of consistency, offering a coherent bridge between the different timelines. The choice to transform the 22nd century into a realm of holography and touch screens feels too sterile. That said, this dissonance somewhat diminishes if one views the new shows as a reboot rather than a continuation. The cast does bring a certain charisma, but the depth and intellectual challenges offered by vintage or bronze-age Star Trek seem diluted. While the contemporary renditions of Star Trek introduce fresh perspectives, there's still a palpable yearning for alignment with the original ethos and charm of the franchise. Maybe that's just impossible to recapture.
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Post by Chalice_Of_Evil on Aug 15, 2023 8:32:17 GMT 1
Good season finale.
I have mixed feelings about the Gorn but I think the bait and switch is the hatchling Gorn we see are the babies. It would account for why the Gorn onscreen seem like mindless aliens but also have warp capable star ships and social infrastructures.
Ambitious but not unwelcome to leave on a cliffhanger. That's usually reserved for the 3rd season when they're a little more sure about being renewed.
Glad they did something meaningful with Erica. I like her, but she's probably the last of the main crew to grow on me. She's there though, and it's good they used her as much as they did in this episode.
Maybe it's because episodes 7-8 dropped in the same week but it seems too soon for the season to end.
I have a question: do they treat Una/Number One better and given Rebecca Romijn more substantial screentime in Season 2 than they did in Season 1? I watched the first season when it came out on Blu-ray here earlier this year and I have to say I was disappointed with how she seemed to be underutilised in it. Considering she was one of the main three (along with Pike and Spock) who kickstarted this series after appearing in Season 2 of Star Trek: Discovery...it didn't really feel like she was the third main castmember (it felt more like Uhura was) and I was just wondering if there was just more of this in the second season or if they rectified it? Either way I'll no doubt get Season 2 when it's eventually released here, but I just didn't want to get my hopes up that they gave Una/Number One/Rebeeca Romijn more to do in Season 2 if they in fact didn't.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Aug 15, 2023 17:22:25 GMT 1
Good season finale.
I have mixed feelings about the Gorn but I think the bait and switch is the hatchling Gorn we see are the babies. It would account for why the Gorn onscreen seem like mindless aliens but also have warp capable star ships and social infrastructures.
Ambitious but not unwelcome to leave on a cliffhanger. That's usually reserved for the 3rd season when they're a little more sure about being renewed.
Glad they did something meaningful with Erica. I like her, but she's probably the last of the main crew to grow on me. She's there though, and it's good they used her as much as they did in this episode.
Maybe it's because episodes 7-8 dropped in the same week but it seems too soon for the season to end.
I have a question: do they treat Una/Number One better and given Rebecca Romijn more substantial screentime in Season 2 than they did in Season 1? I watched the first season when it came out on Blu-ray here earlier this year and I have to say I was disappointed with how she seemed to be underutilised in it. Considering she was one of the main three (along with Pike and Spock) who kickstarted this series after appearing in Season 2 of Star Trek: Discovery...it didn't really feel like she was the third main castmember (it felt more like Uhura was) and I was just wondering if there was just more of this in the second season or if they rectified it? Either way I'll no doubt get Season 2 when it's eventually released here, but I just didn't want to get my hopes up that they gave Una/Number One/Rebeeca Romijn more to do in Season 2 if they in fact didn't. Difficult to say. The show definitely wants you to know Una is held in high regard. Her legal rights are the subject of a full-length trial episode in episode 2. That's an Una episode. Beyond that her onscreen presence is about the same. I think.
But they do lay it on thick that she's respected and important.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Aug 15, 2023 20:03:54 GMT 1
I have a question: do they treat Una/Number One better and given Rebecca Romijn more substantial screentime in Season 2 than they did in Season 1? I watched the first season when it came out on Blu-ray here earlier this year and I have to say I was disappointed with how she seemed to be underutilised in it. Considering she was one of the main three (along with Pike and Spock) who kickstarted this series after appearing in Season 2 of Star Trek: Discovery...it didn't really feel like she was the third main castmember (it felt more like Uhura was) and I was just wondering if there was just more of this in the second season or if they rectified it? Either way I'll no doubt get Season 2 when it's eventually released here, but I just didn't want to get my hopes up that they gave Una/Number One/Rebeeca Romijn more to do in Season 2 if they in fact didn't. Difficult to say. The show definitely wants you to know Una is held in high regard. Her legal rights are the subject of a full-length trial episode in episode 2. That's an Una episode. Beyond that her onscreen presence is about the same. I think.
But they do lay it on thick that she's respected and important.
Speaking of "Ad Astra per Aspera," it has garnered much attention lately. I've heard fans and critics alike lauding it as one of the 'finest episodes of Trek in the entire franchise.' While I agree that it's a well-executed episode, the praise it receives is somewhat overstated. What I appreciated about the episode was the pivot on Eugenics. There's a logic to it. The outright ban on all enhanced individuals serving in Starfleet always seemed a bit extreme. Evaluating each case individually is more reasonable, especially considering the lessons from Earth's early experiments with Eugenics. Those experiments were clearly flawed, leading to the rise of psychotic despots, but shouldn't be used to justify blanket exclusion. However, I found the episode's inclusivity message to be a bit heavy-handed. It's not that the message wasn't well articulated, but the delivery could've been more nuanced. Additionally, I can't help but feel that "Ad Astra per Aspera" would have had a bigger impact if placed later in the series. Positioning it there would've allowed viewers to see more of Una's accomplishments, drawing parallels with the Data-centric episode "The Measure of a Man." The SNW 10-season episode count poses challenges to traditional on-screen character development. I completely understand the sentiment about them laying it on thick regarding Una's stature and respect within Starfleet.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Aug 15, 2023 21:52:21 GMT 1
Difficult to say. The show definitely wants you to know Una is held in high regard. Her legal rights are the subject of a full-length trial episode in episode 2. That's an Una episode. Beyond that her onscreen presence is about the same. I think.
But they do lay it on thick that she's respected and important.
Speaking of "Ad Astra per Aspera," it has garnered much attention lately. I've heard fans and critics alike lauding it as one of the 'finest episodes of Trek in the entire franchise.' While I agree that it's a well-executed episode, the praise it receives is somewhat overstated. What I appreciated about the episode was the pivot on Eugenics. There's a logic to it. The outright ban on all enhanced individuals serving in Starfleet always seemed a bit extreme. Evaluating each case individually is more reasonable, especially considering the lessons from Earth's early experiments with Eugenics. Those experiments were clearly flawed, leading to the rise of psychotic despots, but shouldn't be used to justify blanket exclusion. However, I found the episode's inclusivity message to be a bit heavy-handed. It's not that the message wasn't well articulated, but the delivery could've been more nuanced. Additionally, I can't help but feel that "Ad Astra per Aspera" would have had a bigger impact if placed later in the series. Positioning it there would've allowed viewers to see more of Una's accomplishments, drawing parallels with the Data-centric episode "The Measure of a Man." The SNW 10-season episode count poses challenges to traditional on-screen character development. I completely understand the sentiment about them laying it on thick regarding Una's stature and respect within Starfleet. The 10 episode count comes across as cheap. If not for that I'd say it's doing a better job at trying to recapture the episodic feel of TOS and the 90's shows. The alternative style connecting every episode with either a cliffhanger or a recap seems more like the steaming service approach formatted for binging. {Spoiler} I liked Ad Astra Per Aspera. Exclusion seems out of place in Star Trek but that's their world. I think it's a statement within all Star Trek that they've come a long way but have further to go. It'll never be far enough because Utopia's not real. It doesn't surprise me Starfleet would have regulations against genetic engineering. For the most part we do too, and humanity, even smaller pockets of it, has never completely taken its eye off of eugenics. In the Star Trek world, the prohibition of genetic engineering, allegedly, is due to Khan and the havoc it caused. It's a "never again" situation from their point of view because Khan's reign over the galaxy is considered to be the Holocaust of their time.
It'd have been cool later in the series. I think it had to happen sooner than later because of how season one ended, and that started as early as the episode in season 1 when Una outed herself. It was all an asylum seeking gambit. A takeaway from the Ad Astra Per Aspera episode imo is that it knew its place enough to know that speeches about moral courage may move the crowd, but in the end a technicality is what got her off legally. The case is a landmark case because the lawyer on her side can return to it any time and cite its precedent, so from that point of view it's a big legal victory.
I don't think it's super dissimilar from TNG's "Measure of a Man". The genetic engineering argument today seems like a gender-affirming metaphor. I'm guessing. I don't know for sure. Maybe that's the Rorschach test of the trial, but even Measure of a Man used pronouns like "I" over "it" to legally establish identity and agency for Data, or imply the humanizing properties of the appropriate pronoun. Rorschach.
I'm a sucker for trial episodes. I like them all; Measure of a Man, Drumhead... if they have one thing in common, it's that the right thing to do seems obvious to all but who's in the episode. I agree with the errors along the way should not be used as blanket exclusion; Ad Astra Per Aspera is the beginning of Starfleet realizing the same thing. My guess is if not for that trial, Bashir would have been arrested in DS9 instead of his parents. Attitudes towards genetic mods probably had to air out for as long as it did between Pike's Days and Sisko's for Starfleet to recognize Bashir was a victim, at least by Starfleet standards.
In Ad Astra Per Aspera say it's not just the rules against genetic modification on the line. Una's case has the potential to render all their legal decisions moot if it wins. Starfleet's credibility was on the line. That's what I liked about it. Starfleet has regressive policies; they're just hidden beneath shinier tech. Every angle of the trial is political. It ain't just Una on trial.
Now to encase this all in spoilers. I'll just have to resign myself to accepting my house can fit in Pike's quarters.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Aug 15, 2023 21:53:12 GMT 1
Finally came out right. Never using the spoilers again.
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Post by Chalice_Of_Evil on Aug 16, 2023 0:16:55 GMT 1
I have a question: do they treat Una/Number One better and given Rebecca Romijn more substantial screentime in Season 2 than they did in Season 1? I watched the first season when it came out on Blu-ray here earlier this year and I have to say I was disappointed with how she seemed to be underutilised in it. Considering she was one of the main three (along with Pike and Spock) who kickstarted this series after appearing in Season 2 of Star Trek: Discovery...it didn't really feel like she was the third main castmember (it felt more like Uhura was) and I was just wondering if there was just more of this in the second season or if they rectified it? Either way I'll no doubt get Season 2 when it's eventually released here, but I just didn't want to get my hopes up that they gave Una/Number One/Rebeeca Romijn more to do in Season 2 if they in fact didn't. Difficult to say. The show definitely wants you to know Una is held in high regard. Her legal rights are the subject of a full-length trial episode in episode 2. That's an Una episode. Beyond that her onscreen presence is about the same. I think.
But they do lay it on thick that she's respected and important.
I guess that's to make up for Season 1, which was rather lacking when it came to Una/Number One character development/screentime. Finally came out right. Never using the spoilers again. But you just mastered the art of the spoiler tags!
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Aug 16, 2023 1:56:12 GMT 1
Difficult to say. The show definitely wants you to know Una is held in high regard. Her legal rights are the subject of a full-length trial episode in episode 2. That's an Una episode. Beyond that her onscreen presence is about the same. I think.
But they do lay it on thick that she's respected and important.
I guess that's to make up for Season 1, which was rather lacking when it came to Una/Number One character development/screentime. Finally came out right. Never using the spoilers again. But you just mastered the art of the spoiler tags!Like Austin Powers and his JUDO CHOP!
It was when I went back to edit that it started driving me nuts. Twas all for you, though. It didn't seem right talking about the trial episode you haven't seen.
I like Una. I'm drawn to her stoic competence. Chapel at the moment is probably my fave. I like Pike and L'aan too.
The actor who plays Pike always struck as Jim Caviezel-like.
Trouble-twins.
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Post by Chalice_Of_Evil on Aug 16, 2023 3:12:27 GMT 1
I guess that's to make up for Season 1, which was rather lacking when it came to Una/Number One character development/screentime. But you just mastered the art of the spoiler tags!Like Austin Powers and his JUDO CHOP! It was when I went back to edit that it started driving me nuts. Twas all for you, though. It didn't seem right talking about the trial episode you haven't seen. All for me? Thank you for being so considerate regarding spoilers. Though the truth is, even if I read spoilery stuff about Season 2...I'll probably have forgotten it by the time the season's released here on DVD/Blu-ray (my memory's pretty shoddy these days). I like Una. I'm drawn to her stoic competence. Chapel at the moment is probably my fave. I like Pike and L'aan too. Those^ four were my favourite characters from Season 1 (and the reason I'll be checking out Season 2).
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Aug 16, 2023 6:07:21 GMT 1
Like Austin Powers and his JUDO CHOP! It was when I went back to edit that it started driving me nuts. Twas all for you, though. It didn't seem right talking about the trial episode you haven't seen. All for me? Thank you for being so considerate regarding spoilers. Though the truth is, even if I read spoilery stuff about Season 2...I'll probably have forgotten it by the time the season's released here on DVD/Blu-ray (my memory's pretty shoddy these days). I like Una. I'm drawn to her stoic competence. Chapel at the moment is probably my fave. I like Pike and L'aan too. Those^ four were my favourite characters from Season 1 (and the reason I'll be checking out Season 2). Excellente!
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Post by Lord Death Man on Aug 16, 2023 14:58:12 GMT 1
Speaking of "Ad Astra per Aspera," it has garnered much attention lately. I've heard fans and critics alike lauding it as one of the 'finest episodes of Trek in the entire franchise.' While I agree that it's a well-executed episode, the praise it receives is somewhat overstated. What I appreciated about the episode was the pivot on Eugenics. There's a logic to it. The outright ban on all enhanced individuals serving in Starfleet always seemed a bit extreme. Evaluating each case individually is more reasonable, especially considering the lessons from Earth's early experiments with Eugenics. Those experiments were clearly flawed, leading to the rise of psychotic despots, but shouldn't be used to justify blanket exclusion. However, I found the episode's inclusivity message to be a bit heavy-handed. It's not that the message wasn't well articulated, but the delivery could've been more nuanced. Additionally, I can't help but feel that "Ad Astra per Aspera" would have had a bigger impact if placed later in the series. Positioning it there would've allowed viewers to see more of Una's accomplishments, drawing parallels with the Data-centric episode "The Measure of a Man." The SNW 10-season episode count poses challenges to traditional on-screen character development. I completely understand the sentiment about them laying it on thick regarding Una's stature and respect within Starfleet. The 10 episode count comes across as cheap. If not for that I'd say it's doing a better job at trying to recapture the episodic feel of TOS and the 90's shows. The alternative style connecting every episode with either a cliffhanger or a recap seems more like the steaming service approach formatted for binging. {Spoiler}I liked Ad Astra Per Aspera. Exclusion seems out of place in Star Trek but that's their world. I think it's a statement within all Star Trek that they've come a long way but have further to go. It'll never be far enough because Utopia's not real. It doesn't surprise me Starfleet would have regulations against genetic engineering. For the most part we do too, and humanity, even smaller pockets of it, has never completely taken its eye off of eugenics. In the Star Trek world, the prohibition of genetic engineering, allegedly, is due to Khan and the havoc it caused. It's a "never again" situation from their point of view because Khan's reign over the galaxy is considered to be the Holocaust of their time.
It'd have been cool later in the series. I think it had to happen sooner than later because of how season one ended, and that started as early as the episode in season 1 when Una outed herself. It was all an asylum seeking gambit. A takeaway from the Ad Astra Per Aspera episode imo is that it knew its place enough to know that speeches about moral courage may move the crowd, but in the end a technicality is what got her off legally. The case is a landmark case because the lawyer on her side can return to it any time and cite its precedent, so from that point of view it's a big legal victory.
I don't think it's super dissimilar from TNG's "Measure of a Man". The genetic engineering argument today seems like a gender-affirming metaphor. I'm guessing. I don't know for sure. Maybe that's the Rorschach test of the trial, but even Measure of a Man used pronouns like "I" over "it" to legally establish identity and agency for Data, or imply the humanizing properties of the appropriate pronoun. Rorschach.
I'm a sucker for trial episodes. I like them all; Measure of a Man, Drumhead... if they have one thing in common, it's that the right thing to do seems obvious to all but who's in the episode. I agree with the errors along the way should not be used as blanket exclusion; Ad Astra Per Aspera is the beginning of Starfleet realizing the same thing. My guess is if not for that trial, Bashir would have been arrested in DS9 instead of his parents. Attitudes towards genetic mods probably had to air out for as long as it did between Pike's Days and Sisko's for Starfleet to recognize Bashir was a victim, at least by Starfleet standards.
In Ad Astra Per Aspera say it's not just the rules against genetic modification on the line. Una's case has the potential to render all their legal decisions moot if it wins. Starfleet's credibility was on the line. That's what I liked about it. Starfleet has regressive policies; they're just hidden beneath shinier tech. Every angle of the trial is political. It ain't just Una on trial.
Now to encase this all in spoilers. I'll just have to resign myself to accepting my house can fit in Pike's quarters. {Spoiler}Response: You've made several really astute observations which I agree with for the most part. It's always struck me that humanity, at its core, was more to blame for the eugenics wars than figures like Khan himself. The sheer numbers of human followers should have rendered the augments powerless; humanity outnumbered them by millions to one. And yet, it was our inherent nature, our propensity to follow what appears to be "the strongest leader," that led to our downfall. The same can be seen in historical events; Hitler, for instance, wouldn't have achieved the horrifying heights of power without first convincing some Germans to follow him. I concur with your sentiments about "Ad Astra Per Aspera." While the pivot to a more tolerant approach towards augments was a welcome change, it felt fleeting. My issue is that after this newfound acceptance, the episode seems to almost shy away from this progressive stance, possibly in an attempt to stay in line with the existing canon. Una's asylum verdict clearly wasn't widely known during the timeframe it took place within the Star Trek universe. You'd think that a figure like Bashir would've mentioned it, especially given his inadvertent outing by his parents later in the 23rd century (as you rightly pointed out). Una's verdict, in essence, created a very specific legal loophole tailored for her situation as an augment (and not all augments in general). This decision ensured that the prevailing attitudes towards augments remained unchanged for another century. Your point about Una's case potentially serving as a precedent in future litigations is spot on. However, the fact that it wasn't referenced in subsequent stories (chronologically) highlights that the episode is a somewhat heavy-handed retcon. It almost feels like they tried to walk it back to a certain extent with the asylum loophole (to prevent future augments from availing themselves of the verdict unless perhaps they specifically fit Una's criteria). Number One's Strange New Worlds Trial Won't Fix A Big Starfleet Problem screenrant.com/strange-new-worlds-number-one-trial-starfleet-problem/For me, this underscores a broader issue I have with modern-day Star Trek. Instead of feeling like a genuine continuation of vintage Trek, it often comes across as a disingenuous and harsh critique of it. The reintroduction of classic characters with modern tweaks begs the question: were the creators unsatisfied with their original narratives? This trend of reinterpreting vintage elements to appease a contemporary audience sometimes feels more detrimental than celebratory. I'm in favor of new stories and characters that properly fit within the established Star Trek timeline. By revisiting the same characters and scenarios over and over again, the Star Trek universe seems less expansive and less socially relevant than before. However, it's not all doom and gloom on my end. Despite the numerous canon deviations, "Strange New Worlds (SNW)" has managed to capture the essence of the vintage franchise. On the other hand, "Discovery" might appeal more to fans of grittier sci-fi series like "The Expanse." I've been particularly captivated by La'an as a character, and the reimagining of Pike, from a somber, troubled Captain to a charismatic and charming peacetime leader, has been delightful. But, I must admit, the twist regarding Pike's premonition of his future fate felt unnecessarily cruel for such a revered figure in the franchise. In all, while I see the parallels between "Ad Astra Per Aspera" and episodes like "The Measure of a Man", the latter still holds more weight as it was much more about the character of Data and his right to equal treatment under the law than it was about a specific political issue. "Ad Astra Per Aspera" feels much more like it's about a political issue that Una happens to be at the center of. I don't feel like I know Una as well as I knew Data after some 35 episodes into TNG before his trial occurred. Granted, I was a younger Deathlord then, but I truly felt the possibility that Data could be disassembled and put on a shelf somewhere if the outcome of his trial was not adjudicated favorably. With Una, I never felt she was in danger of censure or imprisonment at any moment in the episode. I really think that comes down to her character needing a bit more development than capable commander with a disciplinarian streak. I've encased this post in Free Forums hellish spoiler tags in solidarity with your recent spoiler struggles. Crack on, Champion AQUA CAT! .
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Aug 16, 2023 22:37:37 GMT 1
The 10 episode count comes across as cheap. If not for that I'd say it's doing a better job at trying to recapture the episodic feel of TOS and the 90's shows. The alternative style connecting every episode with either a cliffhanger or a recap seems more like the steaming service approach formatted for binging. {Spoiler}I liked Ad Astra Per Aspera. Exclusion seems out of place in Star Trek but that's their world. I think it's a statement within all Star Trek that they've come a long way but have further to go. It'll never be far enough because Utopia's not real. It doesn't surprise me Starfleet would have regulations against genetic engineering. For the most part we do too, and humanity, even smaller pockets of it, has never completely taken its eye off of eugenics. In the Star Trek world, the prohibition of genetic engineering, allegedly, is due to Khan and the havoc it caused. It's a "never again" situation from their point of view because Khan's reign over the galaxy is considered to be the Holocaust of their time.
It'd have been cool later in the series. I think it had to happen sooner than later because of how season one ended, and that started as early as the episode in season 1 when Una outed herself. It was all an asylum seeking gambit. A takeaway from the Ad Astra Per Aspera episode imo is that it knew its place enough to know that speeches about moral courage may move the crowd, but in the end a technicality is what got her off legally. The case is a landmark case because the lawyer on her side can return to it any time and cite its precedent, so from that point of view it's a big legal victory.
I don't think it's super dissimilar from TNG's "Measure of a Man". The genetic engineering argument today seems like a gender-affirming metaphor. I'm guessing. I don't know for sure. Maybe that's the Rorschach test of the trial, but even Measure of a Man used pronouns like "I" over "it" to legally establish identity and agency for Data, or imply the humanizing properties of the appropriate pronoun. Rorschach.
I'm a sucker for trial episodes. I like them all; Measure of a Man, Drumhead... if they have one thing in common, it's that the right thing to do seems obvious to all but who's in the episode. I agree with the errors along the way should not be used as blanket exclusion; Ad Astra Per Aspera is the beginning of Starfleet realizing the same thing. My guess is if not for that trial, Bashir would have been arrested in DS9 instead of his parents. Attitudes towards genetic mods probably had to air out for as long as it did between Pike's Days and Sisko's for Starfleet to recognize Bashir was a victim, at least by Starfleet standards.
In Ad Astra Per Aspera say it's not just the rules against genetic modification on the line. Una's case has the potential to render all their legal decisions moot if it wins. Starfleet's credibility was on the line. That's what I liked about it. Starfleet has regressive policies; they're just hidden beneath shinier tech. Every angle of the trial is political. It ain't just Una on trial.
Now to encase this all in spoilers. I'll just have to resign myself to accepting my house can fit in Pike's quarters. {Spoiler}Response: You've made several really astute observations which I agree with for the most part. It's always struck me that humanity, at its core, was more to blame for the eugenics wars than figures like Khan himself. The sheer numbers of human followers should have rendered the augments powerless; humanity outnumbered them by millions to one. And yet, it was our inherent nature, our propensity to follow what appears to be "the strongest leader," that led to our downfall. The same can be seen in historical events; Hitler, for instance, wouldn't have achieved the horrifying heights of power without first convincing some Germans to follow him. I concur with your sentiments about "Ad Astra Per Aspera." While the pivot to a more tolerant approach towards augments was a welcome change, it felt fleeting. My issue is that after this newfound acceptance, the episode seems to almost shy away from this progressive stance, possibly in an attempt to stay in line with the existing canon. Una's asylum verdict clearly wasn't widely known during the timeframe it took place within the Star Trek universe. You'd think that a figure like Bashir would've mentioned it, especially given his inadvertent outing by his parents later in the 23rd century (as you rightly pointed out). Una's verdict, in essence, created a very specific legal loophole tailored for her situation as an augment (and not all augments in general). This decision ensured that the prevailing attitudes towards augments remained unchanged for another century. Your point about Una's case potentially serving as a precedent in future litigations is spot on. However, the fact that it wasn't referenced in subsequent stories (chronologically) highlights that the episode is a somewhat heavy-handed retcon. It almost feels like they tried to walk it back to a certain extent with the asylum loophole (to prevent future augments from availing themselves of the verdict unless perhaps they specifically fit Una's criteria). Number One's Strange New Worlds Trial Won't Fix A Big Starfleet Problem screenrant.com/strange-new-worlds-number-one-trial-starfleet-problem/For me, this underscores a broader issue I have with modern-day Star Trek. Instead of feeling like a genuine continuation of vintage Trek, it often comes across as a disingenuous and harsh critique of it. The reintroduction of classic characters with modern tweaks begs the question: were the creators unsatisfied with their original narratives? This trend of reinterpreting vintage elements to appease a contemporary audience sometimes feels more detrimental than celebratory. I'm in favor of new stories and characters that properly fit within the established Star Trek timeline. By revisiting the same characters and scenarios over and over again, the Star Trek universe seems less expansive and less socially relevant than before. However, it's not all doom and gloom on my end. Despite the numerous canon deviations, "Strange New Worlds (SNW)" has managed to capture the essence of the vintage franchise. On the other hand, "Discovery" might appeal more to fans of grittier sci-fi series like "The Expanse." I've been particularly captivated by La'an as a character, and the reimagining of Pike, from a somber, troubled Captain to a charismatic and charming peacetime leader, has been delightful. But, I must admit, the twist regarding Pike's premonition of his future fate felt unnecessarily cruel for such a revered figure in the franchise. In all, while I see the parallels between "Ad Astra Per Aspera" and episodes like "The Measure of a Man", the latter still holds more weight as it was much more about the character of Data and his right to equal treatment under the law than it was about a specific political issue. "Ad Astra Per Aspera" feels much more like it's about a political issue that Una happens to be at the center of. I don't feel like I know Una as well as I knew Data after some 35 episodes into TNG before his trial occurred. Granted, I was a younger Deathlord then, but I truly felt the possibility that Data could be disassembled and put on a shelf somewhere if the outcome of his trial was not adjudicated favorably. With Una, I never felt she was in danger of censure or imprisonment at any moment in the episode. I really think that comes down to her character needing a bit more development than capable commander with a disciplinarian streak. I've encased this post in Free Forums hellish spoiler tags in solidarity with your recent spoiler struggles. Crack on, Champion AQUA CAT! . Nice post. Really well thought out and meaningful.
Most of my criticisms are small; moment to moment decisions that seem like they could have used another minute of discussion. Una for example has a moment of immaturity (in an episode that shall remain unidentified for now) that seemed too out of character for me to believe she was having a bad day, or that she was sorting through some things.
{Bob the Spoiler} There's a moment in episode... 7 of season 2 where the struggle between M'Benga and the fraudulent war criminal turned peace activist Klingon was filmed from behind a screen, and it just disrupted the flow for me. Even if you storyboard is as a way to protect the viewer from seeing M'Benga murder a (momentarily) peaceful man, unlike enemy combatants, and furthermore use screen to obstruct Chapel from seeing precisely what happened, it still seemed strange.
The aforementioned Una sojourn into immaturity is when she had harsh words with Pelia. It seemed unbecoming of her character and as an officer to use her authority to bully a colleague. There was a moment in an episode after the time-travel episode (the non-crossover one) when L'aan and Kirk meet for the first time again, and he went deep into his feelings as if he was the other timeline's Kirk. I get the show is aiming for a more sensitive and optimistic crew, but that seemed more for the audience' benefit than L'aan's.
"Erica, you're a genius!" said Uhura to Erica after Mariner more than Erica eased her into translating Nausican symbols in the crossover. I also worried a bit that Spock and Chapel were going to go deep. We know how they end, what with Spock eventually jilting his Vulcan fiance in TOS, but it seemed they were flirting with making Spock more human than Vulcan. I like the idea that Vulcans have deeply felt emotions and are just better practiced at leashing them, but they both deserve a little better.
Overall I think it's less gloomy than Discovery (which I could not get into). A criticism I hear a lot, particularly about male protagonists, is they are reinserted into series as walking critiques of their greatness and the systems that made them. In other words they're depressed and hang dark clouds over... everything. Pike I'm finding is notably less melancholy than some characters that have been converted into ghosts of their own disappointment. Luke from The Last Jedi comes to mind. I'd say Indiana Jones too but I haven't seen the new one. The ship has a kinda upbeat atmosphere, even though it's so far advanced it's not even funny.
I think Star Trek has this issue with Ad Astra Per Aspera that it tried to discreetly nip in the bud by having Una's recruitment poster visible for just a second in Boimler's bunk. I missed the first time. That seemed like a Chekov's Gun, and a real on-the-fly move to imply she's been the poster-child for Starfleet since that time, and that Ad Astra Per Aspera became a recruitment motto.
Strange New Worlds (I think) has some really clumsy moments. Honestly I don't know if these guys are supposed to age into Shatner and Nimoy or Pine and Quinto. No idea. I agree with you that a) Una needs more development, and b) if that development happened sooner the episode could have resonated more. I'm just glad they didn't pair off her and her lawyer romantically. Oh, and yes I think Pike is definitely a peace-time captain.
Rock on Lorddeathman. Haha it was the editing that got me with the spoilers. I'd went back to correct one spelling error and it all went to shit, and then the damage control started. This time I gave my spoiler a name.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Aug 16, 2023 22:51:33 GMT 1
Strange New Worlds: We are going to explore the Gorn in our show! Me: But the Federation has not had any contact with th Gorn at this point in Star Trek history. Strange New Worlds: We know that but we really don't want to let such an interesting species go to waste so we are going to have them play a major role now. Me: Well it is true that they are fascinating, and it could be interesting to find out more about them. Strange New Worlds: Right! Plus, we are going to change everything that has already been established about the Gorn so we can be derivative of other scifi franchises while being derivative of other parts of this franchise! Me:
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Post by Lord Death Man on Aug 17, 2023 22:01:53 GMT 1
{Spoiler}Response: You've made several really astute observations which I agree with for the most part. It's always struck me that humanity, at its core, was more to blame for the eugenics wars than figures like Khan himself. The sheer numbers of human followers should have rendered the augments powerless; humanity outnumbered them by millions to one. And yet, it was our inherent nature, our propensity to follow what appears to be "the strongest leader," that led to our downfall. The same can be seen in historical events; Hitler, for instance, wouldn't have achieved the horrifying heights of power without first convincing some Germans to follow him. I concur with your sentiments about "Ad Astra Per Aspera." While the pivot to a more tolerant approach towards augments was a welcome change, it felt fleeting. My issue is that after this newfound acceptance, the episode seems to almost shy away from this progressive stance, possibly in an attempt to stay in line with the existing canon. Una's asylum verdict clearly wasn't widely known during the timeframe it took place within the Star Trek universe. You'd think that a figure like Bashir would've mentioned it, especially given his inadvertent outing by his parents later in the 23rd century (as you rightly pointed out). Una's verdict, in essence, created a very specific legal loophole tailored for her situation as an augment (and not all augments in general). This decision ensured that the prevailing attitudes towards augments remained unchanged for another century. Your point about Una's case potentially serving as a precedent in future litigations is spot on. However, the fact that it wasn't referenced in subsequent stories (chronologically) highlights that the episode is a somewhat heavy-handed retcon. It almost feels like they tried to walk it back to a certain extent with the asylum loophole (to prevent future augments from availing themselves of the verdict unless perhaps they specifically fit Una's criteria). Number One's Strange New Worlds Trial Won't Fix A Big Starfleet Problem screenrant.com/strange-new-worlds-number-one-trial-starfleet-problem/For me, this underscores a broader issue I have with modern-day Star Trek. Instead of feeling like a genuine continuation of vintage Trek, it often comes across as a disingenuous and harsh critique of it. The reintroduction of classic characters with modern tweaks begs the question: were the creators unsatisfied with their original narratives? This trend of reinterpreting vintage elements to appease a contemporary audience sometimes feels more detrimental than celebratory. I'm in favor of new stories and characters that properly fit within the established Star Trek timeline. By revisiting the same characters and scenarios over and over again, the Star Trek universe seems less expansive and less socially relevant than before. However, it's not all doom and gloom on my end. Despite the numerous canon deviations, "Strange New Worlds (SNW)" has managed to capture the essence of the vintage franchise. On the other hand, "Discovery" might appeal more to fans of grittier sci-fi series like "The Expanse." I've been particularly captivated by La'an as a character, and the reimagining of Pike, from a somber, troubled Captain to a charismatic and charming peacetime leader, has been delightful. But, I must admit, the twist regarding Pike's premonition of his future fate felt unnecessarily cruel for such a revered figure in the franchise. In all, while I see the parallels between "Ad Astra Per Aspera" and episodes like "The Measure of a Man", the latter still holds more weight as it was much more about the character of Data and his right to equal treatment under the law than it was about a specific political issue. "Ad Astra Per Aspera" feels much more like it's about a political issue that Una happens to be at the center of. I don't feel like I know Una as well as I knew Data after some 35 episodes into TNG before his trial occurred. Granted, I was a younger Deathlord then, but I truly felt the possibility that Data could be disassembled and put on a shelf somewhere if the outcome of his trial was not adjudicated favorably. With Una, I never felt she was in danger of censure or imprisonment at any moment in the episode. I really think that comes down to her character needing a bit more development than capable commander with a disciplinarian streak. I've encased this post in Free Forums hellish spoiler tags in solidarity with your recent spoiler struggles. Crack on, Champion AQUA CAT! . Nice post. Really well thought out and meaningful. Most of my criticisms are small; moment to moment decisions that seem like they could have used another minute of discussion. Una for example has a moment of immaturity (in an episode that shall remain unidentified for now) that seemed too out of character for me to believe she was having a bad day, or that she was sorting through some things. {Bob the Spoiler}There's a moment in episode... 7 of season 2 where the struggle between M'Benga and the fraudulent war criminal turned peace activist Klingon was filmed from behind a screen, and it just disrupted the flow for me. Even if you storyboard is as a way to protect the viewer from seeing M'Benga murder a (momentarily) peaceful man, unlike enemy combatants, and furthermore use screen to obstruct Chapel from seeing precisely what happened, it still seemed strange.
The aforementioned Una sojourn into immaturity is when she had harsh words with Pelia. It seemed unbecoming of her character and as an officer to use her authority to bully a colleague. There was a moment in an episode after the time-travel episode (the non-crossover one) when L'aan and Kirk meet for the first time again, and he went deep into his feelings as if he was the other timeline's Kirk. I get the show is aiming for a more sensitive and optimistic crew, but that seemed more for the audience' benefit than L'aan's.
"Erica, you're a genius!" said Uhura to Erica after Mariner more than Erica eased her into translating Nausican symbols in the crossover. I also worried a bit that Spock and Chapel were going to go deep. We know how they end, what with Spock eventually jilting his Vulcan fiance in TOS, but it seemed they were flirting with making Spock more human than Vulcan. I like the idea that Vulcans have deeply felt emotions and are just better practiced at leashing them, but they both deserve a little better.
Overall I think it's less gloomy than Discovery (which I could not get into). A criticism I hear a lot, particularly about male protagonists, is they are reinserted into series as walking critiques of their greatness and the systems that made them. In other words they're depressed and hang dark clouds over... everything. Pike I'm finding is notably less melancholy than some characters that have been converted into ghosts of their own disappointment. Luke from The Last Jedi comes to mind. I'd say Indiana Jones too but I haven't seen the new one. The ship has a kinda upbeat atmosphere, even though it's so far advanced it's not even funny.
I think Star Trek has this issue with Ad Astra Per Aspera that it tried to discreetly nip in the bud by having Una's recruitment poster visible for just a second in Boimler's bunk. I missed the first time. That seemed like a Chekov's Gun, and a real on-the-fly move to imply she's been the poster-child for Starfleet since that time, and that Ad Astra Per Aspera became a recruitment motto.
Strange New Worlds (I think) has some really clumsy moments. Honestly I don't know if these guys are supposed to age into Shatner and Nimoy or Pine and Quinto. No idea. I agree with you that a) Una needs more development, and b) if that development happened sooner the episode could have resonated more. I'm just glad they didn't pair off her and her lawyer romantically. Oh, and yes I think Pike is definitely a peace-time captain. Rock on Lorddeathman. Haha it was the editing that got me with the spoilers. I'd went back to correct one spelling error and it all went to shit, and then the damage control started. This time I gave my spoiler a name.
{Spoiler}I find myself nodding in agreement with many of your observations.
Ignoring the clumsy and juvenile aspects of SNW is hard at times.
For example, Spock's recent regression to adolescence (because he became fully human) was cringe-worthy, especially considering that the character is known for his composure. The scenario was too obvious and silly, even if you're trying to subvert audience expectations.
The long-distance relationship problems between Pike and Batel often feel overplayed. It is difficult to believe that someone with Pike's emotional intelligence could be that conflicted in matters of intimacy.
Una deserves more layered development. At times, it seems as if the writers are experimenting with her character without a clear direction. The incident with Pelia was jarringly out of character for me too.
The romantic subplot between Spock and Chapel feels torn from the pages of a bad YA science fiction novel.
You're right, the fleeting appearance of Una's recruitment poster in Boimler's bunk seemed like a hasty attempt to integrate "Ad Astra Per Aspera" into the broader Star Trek universe. It was a subtle move but seemed deliberate, suggesting that the episode's events were monumental in shaping Starfleet's ethos. I treat it as declassified information that became available to the 23rd-century Star Fleet and rendered Una a hero over a century after her trial - effectively the equivalent of getting Harriet Tubman on a $20 bill.
It's difficult, if not impossible, to picture these characters evolving into their TOS counterparts.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Aug 19, 2023 5:55:58 GMT 1
Nice post. Really well thought out and meaningful. Most of my criticisms are small; moment to moment decisions that seem like they could have used another minute of discussion. Una for example has a moment of immaturity (in an episode that shall remain unidentified for now) that seemed too out of character for me to believe she was having a bad day, or that she was sorting through some things. {Bob the Spoiler}There's a moment in episode... 7 of season 2 where the struggle between M'Benga and the fraudulent war criminal turned peace activist Klingon was filmed from behind a screen, and it just disrupted the flow for me. Even if you storyboard is as a way to protect the viewer from seeing M'Benga murder a (momentarily) peaceful man, unlike enemy combatants, and furthermore use screen to obstruct Chapel from seeing precisely what happened, it still seemed strange.
The aforementioned Una sojourn into immaturity is when she had harsh words with Pelia. It seemed unbecoming of her character and as an officer to use her authority to bully a colleague. There was a moment in an episode after the time-travel episode (the non-crossover one) when L'aan and Kirk meet for the first time again, and he went deep into his feelings as if he was the other timeline's Kirk. I get the show is aiming for a more sensitive and optimistic crew, but that seemed more for the audience' benefit than L'aan's.
"Erica, you're a genius!" said Uhura to Erica after Mariner more than Erica eased her into translating Nausican symbols in the crossover. I also worried a bit that Spock and Chapel were going to go deep. We know how they end, what with Spock eventually jilting his Vulcan fiance in TOS, but it seemed they were flirting with making Spock more human than Vulcan. I like the idea that Vulcans have deeply felt emotions and are just better practiced at leashing them, but they both deserve a little better.
Overall I think it's less gloomy than Discovery (which I could not get into). A criticism I hear a lot, particularly about male protagonists, is they are reinserted into series as walking critiques of their greatness and the systems that made them. In other words they're depressed and hang dark clouds over... everything. Pike I'm finding is notably less melancholy than some characters that have been converted into ghosts of their own disappointment. Luke from The Last Jedi comes to mind. I'd say Indiana Jones too but I haven't seen the new one. The ship has a kinda upbeat atmosphere, even though it's so far advanced it's not even funny.
I think Star Trek has this issue with Ad Astra Per Aspera that it tried to discreetly nip in the bud by having Una's recruitment poster visible for just a second in Boimler's bunk. I missed the first time. That seemed like a Chekov's Gun, and a real on-the-fly move to imply she's been the poster-child for Starfleet since that time, and that Ad Astra Per Aspera became a recruitment motto.
Strange New Worlds (I think) has some really clumsy moments. Honestly I don't know if these guys are supposed to age into Shatner and Nimoy or Pine and Quinto. No idea. I agree with you that a) Una needs more development, and b) if that development happened sooner the episode could have resonated more. I'm just glad they didn't pair off her and her lawyer romantically. Oh, and yes I think Pike is definitely a peace-time captain. Rock on Lorddeathman. Haha it was the editing that got me with the spoilers. I'd went back to correct one spelling error and it all went to shit, and then the damage control started. This time I gave my spoiler a name.
{Spoiler}I find myself nodding in agreement with many of your observations.
Ignoring the clumsy and juvenile aspects of SNW is hard at times.
For example, Spock's recent regression to adolescence (because he became fully human) was cringe-worthy, especially considering that the character is known for his composure. The scenario was too obvious and silly, even if you're trying to subvert audience expectations.
The long-distance relationship problems between Pike and Batel often feel overplayed. It is difficult to believe that someone with Pike's emotional intelligence could be that conflicted in matters of intimacy.
Una deserves more layered development. At times, it seems as if the writers are experimenting with her character without a clear direction. The incident with Pelia was jarringly out of character for me too.
The romantic subplot between Spock and Chapel feels torn from the pages of a bad YA science fiction novel.
You're right, the fleeting appearance of Una's recruitment poster in Boimler's bunk seemed like a hasty attempt to integrate "Ad Astra Per Aspera" into the broader Star Trek universe. It was a subtle move but seemed deliberate, suggesting that the episode's events were monumental in shaping Starfleet's ethos. I treat it as declassified information that became available to the 23rd-century Star Fleet and rendered Una a hero over a century after her trial - effectively the equivalent of getting Harriet Tubman on a $20 bill.
It's difficult, if not impossible, to picture these characters evolving into their TOS counterparts. {Spoiler} Totally cringe-worthy. It was hard watching Spock laugh too hard while they're joking around the table. Throwing a fit at Kirk's brother during the meeting was just terrible.
I like what the show is bringing out of Nurse Chapel. She has an extra skip in her step when she around Spock that really lights her up. It's kind of strange remembering it doesn't seem to go anywhere. But she's so badass, apparently. M'Benga too. They're being developed to the point where it seems superfluous to be as underutilized as they are in TOS, even though TOS is 40 years older, but set decades in its future.
Their first real kiss dropped my jaw though. Boimler was right to be concerned when he saw things. It is interesting that they're showing Spock not being a very good or faithful man. Hurt though I get he is, his fiance is right to question his faith in their relationship and in her. If I recall the TOS episode, Spock fought Kirk at Pon Far for her while she had a thing on the side. Spock was the victim there. It's interesting seeing the early cracks in their relationship that look more like Spock's fault. Spock and Chapel's relationship is weird. Spock and T'Pring's is kind of interesting. It humanizes her a bit, or at least contextualizes why she sent Spock and Kirk to their near deaths over her in TOS knowing full well she was with another man.
Science is a prominent character in Star Trek. Science and the ship. I'd like there to be more of that. Speaking of which, now that I've seen enough Trek shows, I think a pattern is with each captain comes a ship culture. From what I remember of Discovery, the ship culture was stern and drab, and overplaying suspicion of the chain of command. The culture on Pike's ship is after work lets eat Paella! It sounds like I'm making fun of it, but that's a reason I greatly prefer SNW to Discovery, which I did not like at all, and I loved The Expanse. The Expanse took a moment for me to warm to the main character, but the plot and the world got me from the beginning. Discovery could get better but I gave up after season 1 episode 6.
I appreciate the conversation. I only know one other person watching any of the Star Trek series. He watches them all. I just watch LD and SNW. I enjoy being able to share some thoughts I thought were going to stay in my head forever.
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Post by Grandmaster on Oct 17, 2023 20:29:45 GMT 1
A musical episode. A animated/live action criss over. They really do boldly go where no Trek show bas gone before. I like it
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