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Post by Lord Death Man on Nov 16, 2021 17:18:03 GMT 1
It's too good a story to burn solely for the sake of fan service. It's got to be done correctly, and usually, that means doing something fans are traditionally horrible at - being patient. The whole Spiderman/Doctor Strange shit show in one little quote I think, deep down inside, we as fans always know the truth. Although studios are often to blame, we also contribute to the downfall of our favorite franchises. We've become a lot more interested in seeing our favorite characters and teams make their debut, sooner rather than later, as opposed to good storytelling. Building a proper Sinister Six would have taken discipline, time, and attention to detail. Instead, the "multiverse" provides a convenient shortcut to instant gratification.
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Post by Grandmaster on Nov 16, 2021 21:33:35 GMT 1
The whole Spiderman/Doctor Strange shit show in one little quote I think, deep down inside, we as fans always know the truth. Although studios are often to blame, we also contribute to the downfall of our favorite franchises. We've become a lot more interested in seeing our favorite characters and teams make their debut, sooner rather than later, as opposed to good storytelling. Building a proper Sinister Six would have taken discipline, time, and attention to detail. Instead, the "multiverse" provides a convenient shortcut to instant gratification. Its lazy writing to provide fan service. A recepy for disaster.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2021 21:53:51 GMT 1
Not really, no. That could just be revealed towards the end, if at all. She may not even know it-that she even is a mutant. Sure obviously she knows she has a certain ability but thats the extent of it and not knowing that there are others out there like her. I mean look at how Black Widow was introduced, or Falcon In her solo/team movie, that can be explored more. It all really depends on how Feige wants to do it but there's definitely a lot of flexibility there It will be great to see Gambit down the line too If she is unaware of her true nature as a mutant, it means she's isolated and without a support system. How would she find herself in conflict with the absolute most powerful Avenger on Earth? Rogue is a member of the "Brotherhood…" in the comic books, and her mother, Mystique, pushes her to assault Danvers. Rogue has no real motivation to go after Carol without some external impetus. As much as fans want it, I doubt a Rogue/Captain Marvel confrontation is in the cards for the second film. The title suggests that Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, and Monica will team up against a mutual threat. I imagine they're going to follow up on Danver's ongoing conflict with the Kree - as it's all the rage in the comic books right now. And the only real reason people want this fight to happen is that it's the only Captain Marvel story of any consequence that casuals know. It's too good a story to burn solely for the sake of fan service. It's got to be done correctly, and usually, that means doing something fans are traditionally horrible at - being patient. I honestly don't care about Gambit at all. He's way overrated in my book. Thats a fair point and if Rogue were set to appear, they will probably use that blueprint. Although I feel the mcu is getting more bold and experimental as time passes. Whoever thought we would get a Spider-Man as a kid? Coupled with the facts that MJ isnt a redhead and quite different in personality, No Uncle Ben, Peter isnt some photographer or really showing much interest. Look at Thor too, a significant change. Lady Thor already coming up Falcon becoming Captain America and getting his own show. The What If series, Agatha, Moon Knight and She Hulk. Im sure the list will grow
Now Rogue could be part of a group but it doesnt necessarily have to be mutants or a team at all. Maybe they are somehow after the same thing? Chance encounters happen too in the mcu. Look at Thor and Hawkeye with how they met or Carol herself with Fury
Hell Rogue was very different in the foxmen but thats fox. All Im saying is that there could be differences, possibly even significant ones to the Rogue we know and love
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2021 21:56:45 GMT 1
The whole Spiderman/Doctor Strange shit show in one little quote I think, deep down inside, we as fans always know the truth. Although studios are often to blame, we also contribute to the downfall of our favorite franchises. We've become a lot more interested in seeing our favorite characters and teams make their debut, sooner rather than later, as opposed to good storytelling. Building a proper Sinister Six would have taken discipline, time, and attention to detail. Instead, the "multiverse" provides a convenient shortcut to instant gratification. Look how everyone was wrapped up in Mephisto. There is a fine line with listening to the fans thats for sure
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Post by Lord Death Man on Nov 16, 2021 22:38:08 GMT 1
If she is unaware of her true nature as a mutant, it means she's isolated and without a support system. How would she find herself in conflict with the absolute most powerful Avenger on Earth? Rogue is a member of the "Brotherhood…" in the comic books, and her mother, Mystique, pushes her to assault Danvers. Rogue has no real motivation to go after Carol without some external impetus. As much as fans want it, I doubt a Rogue/Captain Marvel confrontation is in the cards for the second film. The title suggests that Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, and Monica will team up against a mutual threat. I imagine they're going to follow up on Danver's ongoing conflict with the Kree - as it's all the rage in the comic books right now. And the only real reason people want this fight to happen is that it's the only Captain Marvel story of any consequence that casuals know. It's too good a story to burn solely for the sake of fan service. It's got to be done correctly, and usually, that means doing something fans are traditionally horrible at - being patient. I honestly don't care about Gambit at all. He's way overrated in my book. Thats a fair point and if Rogue were set to appear, they will probably use that blueprint. Although I feel the mcu is getting more bold and experimental as time passes. Whoever thought we would get a Spider-Man as a kid? Coupled with the facts that MJ isnt a redhead and quite different in personality, No Uncle Ben, Peter isnt some photographer or really showing much interest. Look at Thor too, a significant change. Lady Thor already coming up Falcon becoming Captain America and getting his own show. The What If series, Agatha, Moon Knight and She Hulk. Im sure the list will grow
Now Rogue could be part of a group but it doesnt necessarily have to be mutants or a team at all. Maybe they are somehow after the same thing? Chance encounters happen too in the mcu. Look at Thor and Hawkeye with how they met or Carol herself with Fury
Hell Rogue was very different in the foxmen but thats fox. All Im saying is that there could be differences, possibly even significant ones to the Rogue we know and love
All fair points, for sure. That said, I don't think I would hinge a sequel to a billion-dollar movie on a "chance encounter." That feels like you're finding some way to force it to happen. But that's all beside the point. Honestly, for those familiar with the source material and who love the X-Men, the story of Rogue vs. Ms. Marvel is really about Rogue. The fight happened in the X-Men comic books - not the Avengers or Captain Marvel. It was a major turning point for Rogue. She went from being a child soldier manipulated by her parents (i.e., Destiny and Mystique) to being a young woman suddenly and horrifically afflicted with mental illness (bought on by absorbing Carol's powers and persona). Although initially traumatized, Carol recovers from the encounter quickly and takes the Binary superhero identity. Rogue experiences a significant identity crisis, the effects of which linger on for years after the fight. Later on, Rogue becomes certain that SHE IS Carol Danvers. If this confrontation happens in a "Captain Marvel" movie, Danvers becomes the focus of these events. If you are a self-respecting X-Men fan, there is no universe where that is an acceptable outcome. Rogue's recovery from her FIRST encounter with Carol Danvers is some of the most moving storytelling in the genre. It shouldn't be reduced to fan service fodder to help prop up Brie Larson's polarizing franchise. Let Carol become Binary (she's halfway there already) or the Kree Supreme Accuser instead. That would be as entertaining AF.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 3, 2022 0:59:24 GMT 1
I didn’t see an official thread for this so please move this if I missed it
But I’m still feeling the best thing to do with the X-Men is to have a core series, and then at least one and maybe two supporting series.
Sooo the X-Men, X-Factor, and Starjammers for instance. Three series that are very different, at different levels and in different environments, but can incorporate a large array of Xmen characters with a different focus. They also introduce something different than what has been done before which is something I believe Marvel strives for with these previously tried franchises.
What do you expect in terms of potential series and what would you like as an Xmen fan?
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Post by Merv on Feb 3, 2022 1:30:49 GMT 1
Ideally I'd like the X-Men to already have been a thing. The original team (Cyclops, Jean, Beast, etc) and probably even the giant size team (Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, etc.) already having been established and possibly moved on from the team by the current timeline. I think that would allow understandable character history and inter-movie character connections without having to spell them all out.
I think if there's to be a focus, i really like the idea of the Summers family being the lynchpin here. Let Scott be the star of the X-Men ensemble, Alex be a focal point of the X-Factor film and the Starjammers giving us Summers family history and connection all the dots. I like the idea of X-Factor being the Investigations version though, just to give off a different vibe than the X-Men film.
I guess... X-Men...standard superhero group flick? X-Factor Investigations...maybe detective noir vibes? Starjammers...quirky space film that ties the 3 together?
Oooh...maybe even have them build up to Vulcan either during the Starjammers flick or right after.
I dont know Im kind of just typing as i think it. I'll refine my thoughts at some point.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 3, 2022 1:38:13 GMT 1
Ideally I'd like the X-Men to already have been a thing. The original team (Cyclops, Jean, Beast, etc) and probably even the giant size team (Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, etc.) already having been established and possibly moved on from the team by the current timeline. I think that would allow understandable character history and inter-movie character connections without having to spell them all out. I think if there's to be a focus, i really like the idea of the Summers family being the lynchpin here. Let Scott be the star of the X-Men ensemble, Alex be a focal point of the X-Factor film and the Starjammers giving us Summers family history and connection all the dots. I like the idea of X-Factor being the Investigations version though, just to give off a different vibe than the X-Men film. I guess... X-Men...standard superhero group flick? X-Factor Investigations...maybe detective noir vibes? Starjammers...quirky space film that ties the 3 together? Oooh...maybe even have them build up to Vulcan either during the Starjammers flick or right after. I dont know Im kind of just typing as i think it. I'll refine my thoughts at some point. see, I like that idea. You added some layers to it but I think it builds nicely while allowing everything it’s own realm. Great ideas!
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Post by Merv on Feb 3, 2022 1:43:22 GMT 1
Ideally I'd like the X-Men to already have been a thing. The original team (Cyclops, Jean, Beast, etc) and probably even the giant size team (Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, etc.) already having been established and possibly moved on from the team by the current timeline. I think that would allow understandable character history and inter-movie character connections without having to spell them all out. I think if there's to be a focus, i really like the idea of the Summers family being the lynchpin here. Let Scott be the star of the X-Men ensemble, Alex be a focal point of the X-Factor film and the Starjammers giving us Summers family history and connection all the dots. I like the idea of X-Factor being the Investigations version though, just to give off a different vibe than the X-Men film. I guess... X-Men...standard superhero group flick? X-Factor Investigations...maybe detective noir vibes? Starjammers...quirky space film that ties the 3 together? Oooh...maybe even have them build up to Vulcan either during the Starjammers flick or right after. I dont know Im kind of just typing as i think it. I'll refine my thoughts at some point. see, I like that idea. You added some layers to it but I think it builds nicely while allowing everything it’s own realm. Great ideas! The Summers family is such a baseline for the x Men comics that it seems the easiest and most acceptable place to start. You could literally branch off to everything from Phoenix to the Savage Land to Cable just by using their bloodline. It really annoys me in retrospect how shafted Cyclops gets in those original XMen films.
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Post by Merv on Feb 3, 2022 1:48:24 GMT 1
Without thinking too hard on how it's incorporated...I would absolutely love a film centered around the Savage Land and Mister Sinister. It would be so easy to do and I would eat it up.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 3, 2022 2:05:53 GMT 1
see, I like that idea. You added some layers to it but I think it builds nicely while allowing everything it’s own realm. Great ideas! The Summers family is such a baseline for the x Men comics that it seems the easiest and most acceptable place to start. You could literally branch off to everything from Phoenix to the Savage Land to Cable just by using their bloodline. It really annoys me in retrospect how shafted Cyclops gets in those original XMen films. I think that’s a strong start and fills the need to do something different with this franchise while staying incredibly true to the comics
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Feb 3, 2022 3:19:39 GMT 1
I didn’t see an official thread for this so please move this if I missed it I found a thread under FOX-men, and then moved those posts here.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 3, 2022 18:16:05 GMT 1
I'd love to see a more grounded approach to the appearance of mutants in the MCU. This would mean introducing them as a concept before bringing in full-fledged mutant superheroes and superhero teams.
I imagine cameos from several low-level mutants that can "pass" in larger story arcs.
For example, in a story arc like a Secret Invasion, the protagonists might find themselves in need of someone who can decipher ancient Skrull texts. The heroes might end up collaborating with SWORD, who happens to have a young, and highly gifted linguist and translator on their staff. The savant is a teenaged Douglas Ramsey (of New Mutant fame).
SWORD and the heroes are happy to exploit Doug's talents without questioning how it's possible that he'd mastered every Earth dialect by 16 and was proving adept at doing the same with alien languages.
Maybe one character in the main story thinks it's notable or odd, but most are content to write it off as some innate ability operating at the upper limit of human intellect.
Maybe Doug doesn't realize he's different either.
The idea is to plant the seeds of an emerging new species living within our society. Most of them are closeted if they know they're mutants at all, and there is no concept of leadership or organization - yet.
It will take the so-called Omega-Level mutants to call for unity and begin forming coalitions and battle groups.
It's more of a slow burn that builds up to a confrontation between mutants and humanity. Humans may even accept mutants as they do more conventional superheroes before turning on them after realizing they represent the next step in human evolution.
I also think that being a mutant should be extremely rare as not to clog up the MCU with random and redundant mutant characters like the comics tend to.
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Feb 3, 2022 22:01:08 GMT 1
I moved "The Mutants?" posts into this thread from FOX-men.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 3, 2022 22:10:30 GMT 1
Thats a fair point and if Rogue were set to appear, they will probably use that blueprint. Although I feel the mcu is getting more bold and experimental as time passes. Whoever thought we would get a Spider-Man as a kid? Coupled with the facts that MJ isnt a redhead and quite different in personality, No Uncle Ben, Peter isnt some photographer or really showing much interest. Look at Thor too, a significant change. Lady Thor already coming up Falcon becoming Captain America and getting his own show. The What If series, Agatha, Moon Knight and She Hulk. Im sure the list will grow
Now Rogue could be part of a group but it doesnt necessarily have to be mutants or a team at all. Maybe they are somehow after the same thing? Chance encounters happen too in the mcu. Look at Thor and Hawkeye with how they met or Carol herself with Fury
Hell Rogue was very different in the foxmen but thats fox. All Im saying is that there could be differences, possibly even significant ones to the Rogue we know and love
All fair points, for sure. That said, I don't think I would hinge a sequel to a billion-dollar movie on a "chance encounter." That feels like you're finding some way to force it to happen. But that's all beside the point. Honestly, for those familiar with the source material and who love the X-Men, the story of Rogue vs. Ms. Marvel is really about Rogue. The fight happened in the X-Men comic books - not the Avengers or Captain Marvel. It was a major turning point for Rogue. She went from being a child soldier manipulated by her parents (i.e., Destiny and Mystique) to being a young woman suddenly and horrifically afflicted with mental illness (bought on by absorbing Carol's powers and persona). Although initially traumatized, Carol recovers from the encounter quickly and takes the Binary superhero identity. Rogue experiences a significant identity crisis, the effects of which linger on for years after the fight. Later on, Rogue becomes certain that SHE IS Carol Danvers. If this confrontation happens in a "Captain Marvel" movie, Danvers becomes the focus of these events. If you are a self-respecting X-Men fan, there is no universe where that is an acceptable outcome. Rogue's recovery from her FIRST encounter with Carol Danvers is some of the most moving storytelling in the genre. It shouldn't be reduced to fan service fodder to help prop up Brie Larson's polarizing franchise. Let Carol become Binary (she's halfway there already) or the Kree Supreme Accuser instead. That would be as entertaining AF. I like that Supreme Accuser angle. It’s a nice look and I love dark cosmic stories. I really hope we get back to Hala and the Supreme Intelligence
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 3, 2022 22:46:23 GMT 1
All fair points, for sure. That said, I don't think I would hinge a sequel to a billion-dollar movie on a "chance encounter." That feels like you're finding some way to force it to happen. But that's all beside the point. Honestly, for those familiar with the source material and who love the X-Men, the story of Rogue vs. Ms. Marvel is really about Rogue. The fight happened in the X-Men comic books - not the Avengers or Captain Marvel. It was a major turning point for Rogue. She went from being a child soldier manipulated by her parents (i.e., Destiny and Mystique) to being a young woman suddenly and horrifically afflicted with mental illness (bought on by absorbing Carol's powers and persona). Although initially traumatized, Carol recovers from the encounter quickly and takes the Binary superhero identity. Rogue experiences a significant identity crisis, the effects of which linger on for years after the fight. Later on, Rogue becomes certain that SHE IS Carol Danvers. If this confrontation happens in a "Captain Marvel" movie, Danvers becomes the focus of these events. If you are a self-respecting X-Men fan, there is no universe where that is an acceptable outcome. Rogue's recovery from her FIRST encounter with Carol Danvers is some of the most moving storytelling in the genre. It shouldn't be reduced to fan service fodder to help prop up Brie Larson's polarizing franchise. Let Carol become Binary (she's halfway there already) or the Kree Supreme Accuser instead. That would be as entertaining AF. I like that Supreme Accuser angle. It’s a nice look and I love dark cosmic stories. I really hope we get back to Hala and the Supreme Intelligence I wouldn't mind the Captain Marvel franchise going darker either. In my fanboy dreams, Marvel goes all out and adapts a version of the Kree/Skull War that spills over onto Earth. Charting the ascension of the Kree Empire from cave-dwelling thugs to interstellar overlords would be legendary. It would be great to see a more conquest-minded alien race bent on taking complete control of the Large Magellanic Cloud -- and beyond.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 3, 2022 23:20:25 GMT 1
I wouldn't mind the Captain Marvel franchise going darker either. In my fanboy dreams, Marvel goes all out and adapts a version of the Kree/Skull War that spills over onto Earth. Charting the ascension of the Kree Empire from cave-dwelling thugs to interstellar overlords would be legendary. It would be great to see a more conquest-minded alien race bent on taking complete control of the Large Magellanic Cloud -- and beyond. I am endlessly fascinated by the real life potential of galactic conquest and what that would entail. The technology required. The divisions in humanity that would come about. And just the concept of what it would be like to go anywhere in the galaxy or event through the local cluster. It would be an effectively infinite reality, and it’s only still a small portion of the whole
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Feb 7, 2022 18:05:08 GMT 1
Regardless of how they do the Mutants and the X-Men, I trust Marvel to treat them right.
There is a lot they can work with.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 19:33:56 GMT 1
They should bring Wolverine into the MCU ASAP. He’s arguably Marvel’s most popular character after Spider-Man. I would wait a while for the rest of the X Men. But Wolvie needs a solo movie in Phase 4.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 7, 2022 21:18:10 GMT 1
They should bring Wolverine into the MCU ASAP. He’s arguably Marvel’s most popular character after Spider-Man. I would wait a while for the rest of the X Men. But Wolvie needs a solo movie in Phase 4. im not sure how I feel about when he needs to come in, but it won’t be phase 4. I’m not even sure it will be phase 5. But TBH I really dont have a good feel for their plans. I just don’t think they’ll make a move before they’re ready to
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 21:55:55 GMT 1
They should bring Wolverine into the MCU ASAP. He’s arguably Marvel’s most popular character after Spider-Man. I would wait a while for the rest of the X Men. But Wolvie needs a solo movie in Phase 4. im not sure how I feel about when he needs to come in, but it won’t be phase 4. I’m not even sure it will be phase 5. But TBH I really dont have a good feel for their plans. I just don’t think they’ll make a move before they’re ready to I just want to see him interact with other iconic characters before it’s too late. Obviously we won’t see him meet Cap or Iron Man. It’d be nice to see him develop an ongoing relationship with Spidey, Strange or Hulk though. Might not happen if they wait. They got a lot on their plate though. Adding mutants is another gigantic door to open, so it does make sense to wait too
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Feb 7, 2022 21:58:17 GMT 1
They should bring Wolverine into the MCU ASAP. are you talking about Huge Ackman, or just the character?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 21:59:05 GMT 1
They should bring Wolverine into the MCU ASAP. are you talking about Huge Ackman, or just the character? Just the character. I loved Huge Ackman, but I think the McU needs its own version.
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Feb 7, 2022 22:02:14 GMT 1
are you talking about Huge Ackman, or just the character? Just the character. I loved Huge Ackman, but I think the McU needs its own version. gotcha keep in mind though, he is not "too old" iron man, ant man, hulk were all old as fuck ( yes, i get to say that, because they are my age )
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 22:07:51 GMT 1
Just the character. I loved Huge Ackman, but I think the McU needs its own version. gotcha keep in mind though, he is not "too old" iron man, ant man, hulk were all old as fuck ( yes, i get to say that, because they are my age ) I agree. In fact, I actually think it’s pretty cool that Downy, Cheadle, Rudd and Ruffalo are/were 50+ Superheroes. I’d love to see more TOBERMAN too. And, I’m also embracing 70+ Indiana Jones! With Wolverine I just think that version got a good ending. And a new version could be interesting in a different way.
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Feb 7, 2022 22:28:13 GMT 1
gotcha keep in mind though, he is not "too old" iron man, ant man, hulk were all old as fuck ( yes, i get to say that, because they are my age ) I agree. In fact, I actually think it’s pretty cool that Downy, Cheadle, Rudd and Ruffalo are/were 50+ Superheroes. I’d love to see more TOBERMAN too. And, I’m also embracing 70+ Indiana Jones! With Wolverine I just think that version got a good ending. And a new version could be interesting in a different way. honestly, i thought they were all too old, but yes, it did open the door for toberman!
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 7, 2022 22:34:06 GMT 1
im not sure how I feel about when he needs to come in, but it won’t be phase 4. I’m not even sure it will be phase 5. But TBH I really dont have a good feel for their plans. I just don’t think they’ll make a move before they’re ready to I just want to see him interact with other iconic characters before it’s too late. Obviously we won’t see him meet Cap or Iron Man. It’d be nice to see him develop an ongoing relationship with Spidey, Strange or Hulk though. Might not happen if they wait. They got a lot on their plate though. Adding mutants is another gigantic door to open, so it does make sense to wait too There is a closing window, you’re right. Maybe they’ll pull out old cap for him one last time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 22:35:32 GMT 1
I agree. In fact, I actually think it’s pretty cool that Downy, Cheadle, Rudd and Ruffalo are/were 50+ Superheroes. I’d love to see more TOBERMAN too. And, I’m also embracing 70+ Indiana Jones! With Wolverine I just think that version got a good ending. And a new version could be interesting in a different way. honestly, i thought they were all too old, but yes, it did open the door for toberman! I like seeing middle aged superheroes. It actually makes me feel better about approaching that age group myself as strange/silly as that sounds.
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Feb 7, 2022 22:36:02 GMT 1
I am in really good shape for my age, and the odds of me running around fighting crime are 0%
That's one of the things they always got right in the dark knight films
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Feb 7, 2022 22:36:49 GMT 1
and even some of the other batman films
i rmember keaton getting all roughed up too
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