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Post by Dave Stoller on Oct 26, 2020 20:25:12 GMT 1
I say they were not because we saw footage of them not only on the moon but getting overtaken and beaten by super strength aliens from a planet called Krypton where they used that footage in Superman 2!
OK Seriously, I recently met someone who thinks they were and she was the first one I ever met in person with this claim. One of her arguments was how the space in the backgrounds of photos is all black. I didn't have an answer for that because I don't know why they are black.
I can understand why someone would think it was faked but I think they made it there and back on several missions. What do you think?
Moon landings real or fake?
And if anyone disagrees what you think to the contrary I ask that we hold back on judgements, name calling etc. That we all have an open mind no matter what one believes happened.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Oct 26, 2020 20:28:24 GMT 1
I say they were not because we saw footage of them not only on the moon but fighting super strength aliens from a planet called Krypton where they used that footage in Superman 2! OK Seriously, I recently met someone who thinks they were and she was the first one I ever met in person with this claim. I can understand why someone would think it was faked but I think they made it there and back on several missions. What do you think? Moon landings real or fake? And if anyone disagrees what you think to the contrary I ask that we hold back on judgements, name calling etc. That we all have an open mind no matter what one believes happened. Absolutely real, and btw cosmology is one of my passions. This is one of the worst conspiracy theories out there because there is overwhelming evidence it happened. No argument that it didn’t holds up. This isn’t something that’s in debate, and anybody who has any doubt really truly needs to reach out to experts in the field, because there is no legitimate doubt about this.
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Oct 27, 2020 4:23:15 GMT 1
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Post by Dave Stoller on Oct 27, 2020 4:47:42 GMT 1
Dude, if you are going to post that then it is only fair that you send the OP, in this case me, the drugs you took to tolerate that.
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Post by Nightman on Oct 27, 2020 17:47:57 GMT 1
Yes. The moon is flat, too.
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Post by Dave Stoller on Oct 27, 2020 17:57:51 GMT 1
Yes. The moon is flat, too. Is it made out of cheese?
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Oct 27, 2020 20:02:22 GMT 1
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Post by Dave Stoller on Oct 27, 2020 20:28:56 GMT 1
Anyone who doesn't like Wallace and Gromit is dead. D-E-D dead! Clip from their short film A Grand Day Out where they built a rocket and go to the moon for vacay because Wallace thinks it is the ultimate place to get cheese to feed his addiction.
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Oct 28, 2020 5:41:58 GMT 1
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Oct 28, 2020 5:51:43 GMT 1
'The Myth Busters' have ALREADY PROVEN the first Moon landing WAS REAL!!! That SHOULD'VE BEEN the END of the DEBATE! Not sure if they covered the remaining Lunar landings, or not. BUT they're ALL REAL REGARDLESS!!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2020 8:32:53 GMT 1
If it was, shouldnt there be more compelling evidence? Im sure the media and other countries have investigated this and if there's nothing then well..it was real
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Oct 28, 2020 17:27:16 GMT 1
I say they were not because we saw footage of them not only on the moon but fighting super strength aliens from a planet called Krypton where they used that footage in Superman 2! Absolutely real, and btw cosmology is one of my passions. I also love cosmology, or at least I used to. It's been about 10 years since I watched all the shows about it, and read all about it. So my info may be somewhat out of date.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Oct 28, 2020 17:33:43 GMT 1
Absolutely real, and btw cosmology is one of my passions. I also love cosmology, or at least I used to. It's been about 10 years since I watched all the shows about it, and read all about it. So my info may be somewhat out of date. check this guy out. He runs a pretty solid channel about all sorts of discoveries we’ve made recently. We know a ton about exo planets, and the origin of the universe etc that isn’t widely understood yet. Any time you want to talk about it, I love this stuff m.youtube.com/user/whatdamath
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Oct 28, 2020 17:41:33 GMT 1
I also love cosmology, or at least I used to. It's been about 10 years since I watched all the shows about it, and read all about it. So my info may be somewhat out of date. check this guy out. He runs a pretty solid channel about all sorts of discoveries we’ve made recently. We know a ton about exo planets, and the origin of the universe etc that isn’t widely understood yet. Any time you want to talk about it, I love this stuff m.youtube.com/user/whatdamathwill do, i used to ramble off "facts" to my gf, often as i was reading them the funny part was, i never even tried to understand the actual math behind it all so a typical convo would often go like this: me "this researcher has calculated that the universe is 12 sided" her "how did he figure that out?" me "¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Oct 28, 2020 17:49:28 GMT 1
visualizing the 12 sided thing made a lot of sense to me
if the multiverse is set up like bubbles in foam, then each of the 12 sides would be where that universe is pushed up nest to another one beside it
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Oct 28, 2020 17:51:08 GMT 1
and it still fits with the common factoid that "the universe is flat" ( or so big, that it appears flat to us ) i have always leaned toward the latter
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Oct 28, 2020 17:54:29 GMT 1
last i heard our universe was 40 billion light years across,
i think thats big enough that we cant see any sort of curve to it
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Oct 28, 2020 17:57:51 GMT 1
i read a great analogy once in scientific american, iirc it said the size of a string to an atom is the same as a blade of grass to the Earth(!)
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Oct 28, 2020 19:54:46 GMT 1
i read a great analogy once in scientific american, iirc it said the size of a string to an atom is the same as a blade of grass to the Earth(!) There are tons of mind blowing facts about the size of space and biology that we all just take for granted. The key is not jumping to conclusions about the vast array of things we don’t fully understand. Like the possibility of a real multiverse. That’s not a joke, a bubble universe could very well be real. One of my favorites is that at our current fastest speed of space travel which is an insanely fast 20K MPH, it would still take 137K years to get to even the closest star (4 light years). And there are 500 million stars in just our Galaxy alone. And there are 1 trillion galaxies. The closets one of those is 2.5 million light years away. Absolutely staggering scale.
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Post by Dave Stoller on Oct 28, 2020 19:57:37 GMT 1
last i heard our universe was 40 billion light years across, i think thats big enough that we cant see any sort of curve to it It blows my mind to think of how outer space is infinite. You could get into a rocket ship and never reach an end.
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Post by Dave Stoller on Oct 28, 2020 20:09:16 GMT 1
i read a great analogy once in scientific american, iirc it said the size of a string to an atom is the same as a blade of grass to the Earth(!) There are tons of mind blowing facts about the size of space and biology that we all just take for granted. The key is not jumping to conclusions about the vast array of things we don’t fully understand. Like the possibility of a real multiverse. That’s not a joke, a bubble universe could very well be real. One of my favorites is that at our current fastest speed of space travel which is an insanely fast 20K MPH, it would still take 137K years to get to even the closest star (4 light years). And there are 500 million stars in just our Galaxy alone. And there are 1 trillion galaxies. The closets one of those is 2.5 million light years away. Absolutely staggering scale. The closest star besides the sun you mean don't you? Now here are a couple of other things that blow my mind. (See above in my response to Chewy for another one.) The sun, being the closest star, gives us an idea of just how powerful stars are and what they can do such as giving us light and life. We would be dead without it and we complain when it gets too hot and too cold! When we look up at a night sky and see the light of the stars we are looking into a distant past. So does that mean if any of those stars went super nova aka exploded by now, that it will still take many years to see that? So we could be seeing stars that are no longer there? And if some being on a far away distant planet had a telescope powerful enough to look at the earth they might see the dinosaurs or what was going on millions of years ago.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Oct 28, 2020 20:11:30 GMT 1
last i heard our universe was 40 billion light years across, i think thats big enough that we cant see any sort of curve to it It blows my mind to think of how outer space is infinite. You could get into a rocket ship and never reach an end. technically it’s not infinite, as far as we can calculate. But it’s so vast there’s no practical difference. Interestingly though there is also no edge. As best we can tell, the “edge” curves back in on itself or possibly even loops back to the opposite side, meaning you could never make it to a “wall” of an type. The reason we think this is based on the expansion and models of an origin which match other physical evidence in the universe (such as our net total energy = zero). What is suspected to have happened is that within a pure void being compressed by gravity, energy formed within that to balance the equation of gravity compressing it at zero. At a certain level this void expanded (the Big Bang) and the energy then cooled into basic elements like hydrogen. Stars eventually formed from this gas to form the heavier elements.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Oct 28, 2020 20:16:31 GMT 1
There are tons of mind blowing facts about the size of space and biology that we all just take for granted. The key is not jumping to conclusions about the vast array of things we don’t fully understand. Like the possibility of a real multiverse. That’s not a joke, a bubble universe could very well be real. One of my favorites is that at our current fastest speed of space travel which is an insanely fast 20K MPH, it would still take 137K years to get to even the closest star (4 light years). And there are 500 million stars in just our Galaxy alone. And there are 1 trillion galaxies. The closets one of those is 2.5 million light years away. Absolutely staggering scale. The closest star besides the sun you mean don't you? Now here are a couple of other things that blow my mind. (See above in my response to Chewy for another one.) The sun, being the closest star, gives us an idea of just how powerful stars are and what they can do such as giving us light and life. We would be dead without it and we complain when it gets too hot and too cold! When we look up at a night sky and see the light of the stars we are looking into a distant past. So does that mean if any of those stars went super nova aka exploded by now, that it will still take many years to see that? So we could be seeing stars that are no longer there? And if some being on a far away distant planet had a telescope powerful enough to look at the earth they might see the dinosaurs or what was going on millions of years ago. YES! Exactly. Everything you see is in the past. When you see the sun you see as it was 8 minutes. Now as Pink Floyd once said, the sun is the same in a relative way but we’re older, but if you looked at Alpha Centuri in the night sky, you’re seeing it as it was 4 years ago. And indeed, if an alien civilization, a million light years away, had a telescope powerful enough to see us, it would be seeing what Earth was like a million years ago right now. If we ever spot legitimate signs of life anyway, say we find a Dyson Sphere. We’ll have to wonder if that civilization still exists.
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Post by Dave Stoller on Oct 28, 2020 20:21:33 GMT 1
It blows my mind to think of how outer space is infinite. You could get into a rocket ship and never reach an end. technically it’s not infinite, as far as we can calculate. But it’s so fast there’s no practical difference. Interestingly though there is also no edge. As best we can tell, the “edge” curves back in on itself or possibly even loops back to the opposite side, meaning you could never make it to a “wall” of an type. The reason we think this is based on the expansion and models of an origin which match other physical evidence in the universe (such as our net total energy = zero). What is suspected to have happened is that within a pure void being compressed by gravity, energy formed within that to balance the equation of gravity compressing it at zero. At a certain level this void expanded (the Big Bang) and the energy then cooled into basic elements like hydrogen. Stars eventually formed from this gas to form the heavier elements. Is there an idea of where all those gasses, gravity and other stuff that made it what it is came from? How could it all have started from nothing? And the thing is that it is not done. Here on earth and outer space. Like all the canyons, rock formations, mountains etc. Those are still changing as the earth shifts and moves with earthquakes, erosion, wind and the power of water etc. And stuff is still happening in outer space too. Perhaps a planet is being formed or destroyed millions of light years away and we don't see it while there will be things seen in our area at some point if not now. Fuck! Mind blown again!
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Oct 28, 2020 20:37:01 GMT 1
technically it’s not infinite, as far as we can calculate. But it’s so fast there’s no practical difference. Interestingly though there is also no edge. As best we can tell, the “edge” curves back in on itself or possibly even loops back to the opposite side, meaning you could never make it to a “wall” of an type. The reason we think this is based on the expansion and models of an origin which match other physical evidence in the universe (such as our net total energy = zero). What is suspected to have happened is that within a pure void being compressed by gravity, energy formed within that to balance the equation of gravity compressing it at zero. At a certain level this void expanded (the Big Bang) and the energy then cooled into basic elements like hydrogen. Stars eventually formed from this gas to form the heavier elements. Is there an idea of where all those gasses, gravity and other stuff that made it what it is came from? How could it all have started from nothing? And the thing is that it is not done. Here on earth and outer space. Like all the canyons, rock formations, mountains etc. Those are still changing as the earth shifts and moves with earthquakes, erosion, wind and the power of water etc. And stuff is still happening in outer space too. Perhaps a planet is being formed or destroyed millions of light years away and we don't see it while there will be things seen in our area at some point if not now. Fuck! Mind blown again! Oh new planets and stars are constantly forming. It’s as much a part of nature as new mountains and rivers. The answer to your question though it didn’t exactly form out of nothing. But sort of. They key is understanding how gravity forms. It isn’t caused by the presence of a planet exactly. What happens is that the planet creates a void in space/time and it’s that void which is trying to close that generates the effect of gravity. The thing we have to consider is that inside them, there is no concept of time. So there is no “before” a void. A void is the smallest point of compression. It has no tangible size. Consider that at the speed of light, the value of time is infinite. If you were riding on a photon of light, you would see the entire history of the universe at once. Wild I know. Within a void it’s the exact opposite. This is why time is considered a dimension. After you wrap around the idea that there was no before, the thing that happens is that gravity is negative energy. And in order to balance that equation, energy is generated inside the void. Once that void expands, the energy itself converts to matters. That’s way E=MC2. You can convert matter to energy and visa versa. Stars then become the next key step. They are nuclear fusion engines. Inside them atoms are being pressed together under extreme gravity which causes them to form heavier elements. A giant ball of hydrogen, eventually becomes a giant ball of iron. Over billions of years. Once it gets heavy enough, the energy a star gives off can no longer support its lighter upper layers which come crashing down on it, causing a super nova. That sends all of the new elements out into space which form planets like ours around other stars. Cue the formation of DNA
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Post by Dave Stoller on Oct 28, 2020 22:28:17 GMT 1
Is there an idea of where all those gasses, gravity and other stuff that made it what it is came from? How could it all have started from nothing? And the thing is that it is not done. Here on earth and outer space. Like all the canyons, rock formations, mountains etc. Those are still changing as the earth shifts and moves with earthquakes, erosion, wind and the power of water etc. And stuff is still happening in outer space too. Perhaps a planet is being formed or destroyed millions of light years away and we don't see it while there will be things seen in our area at some point if not now. Fuck! Mind blown again! Oh new planets and stars are constantly forming. It’s as much a part of nature as new mountains and rivers. The answer to your question though it didn’t exactly form out of nothing. But sort of. They key is understanding how gravity forms. It isn’t caused by the presence of a planet exactly. What happens is that the planet creates a void in space/time and it’s that void which is trying to close that generates the effect of gravity. The thing we have to consider is that inside them, there is no concept of time. So there is no “before” a void. A void is the smallest point of compression. It has no tangible size. Consider that at the speed of light, the value of time is infinite. If you were riding on a photon of light, you would see the entire history of the universe at once. Wild I know. Within a void it’s the exact opposite. This is why time is considered a dimension. After you wrap around the idea that there was no before, the thing that happens is that gravity is negative energy. And in order to balance that equation, energy is generated inside the void. Once that void expands, the energy itself converts to matters. That’s way E=MC2. You can convert matter to energy and visa versa. Stars then become the next key step. They are nuclear fusion engines. Inside them atoms are being pressed together under extreme gravity which causes them to form heavier elements. A giant ball of hydrogen, eventually becomes a giant ball of iron. Over billions of years. Once it gets heavy enough, the energy a star gives off can no longer support its lighter upper layers which come crashing down on it, causing a super nova. That sends all of the new elements out into space which form planets like ours around other stars. Cue the formation of DNA I love discussions like this! And as you know the sun will burn out millions and millions of years from now. Right? I dunno what kind of human life will be around but I wonder what they will do if there is any. Will there be enough rocket ships to take them away if that should happen? Or would they go underground to live if the earth could survive such a thing? I'd be interested to get your thoughts on this.
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Post by primemcgee on Oct 28, 2020 22:37:11 GMT 1
I think the "moon landings are fake" story is motivated by a desire to break down American achievements. The same way the JFK assassination is called an inside job.
A more interesting conspiracy theory is whether the nuke explosions are real. It is hard to understand how a house could be filmed being blown apart in close up by a nuclear blast. Either it was an unbelievably powerful zoom lens or it was a small explosion--and if a small explosion, why aren't those bombs used in combat? Something doesn't add up.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Oct 28, 2020 23:02:56 GMT 1
Oh new planets and stars are constantly forming. It’s as much a part of nature as new mountains and rivers. The answer to your question though it didn’t exactly form out of nothing. But sort of. They key is understanding how gravity forms. It isn’t caused by the presence of a planet exactly. What happens is that the planet creates a void in space/time and it’s that void which is trying to close that generates the effect of gravity. The thing we have to consider is that inside them, there is no concept of time. So there is no “before” a void. A void is the smallest point of compression. It has no tangible size. Consider that at the speed of light, the value of time is infinite. If you were riding on a photon of light, you would see the entire history of the universe at once. Wild I know. Within a void it’s the exact opposite. This is why time is considered a dimension. After you wrap around the idea that there was no before, the thing that happens is that gravity is negative energy. And in order to balance that equation, energy is generated inside the void. Once that void expands, the energy itself converts to matters. That’s way E=MC2. You can convert matter to energy and visa versa. Stars then become the next key step. They are nuclear fusion engines. Inside them atoms are being pressed together under extreme gravity which causes them to form heavier elements. A giant ball of hydrogen, eventually becomes a giant ball of iron. Over billions of years. Once it gets heavy enough, the energy a star gives off can no longer support its lighter upper layers which come crashing down on it, causing a super nova. That sends all of the new elements out into space which form planets like ours around other stars. Cue the formation of DNA I love discussions like this! And as you know the sun will burn out millions and millions of years from now. Right? I dunno what kind of human life will be around but I wonder what they will do if there is any. Will there be enough rocket ships to take them away if that should happen? Or would they go underground to live if the earth could survive such a thing? I'd be interested to get your thoughts on this. Good questions. And just to be a little more precise, the Sun is calculated to consume the Earth in around 8billion. That’s about 1.5x the current age of the Earth. So, no way to guess how life will evolve by then. We’ve evolved to this state in 5 billion and could only be considered human in the last 100-200 thousand. Prior to that we were homoerectus, homo habilis, etc all the way back to australopithecus about 5 million years ago when we were first branching away from the other great apes. Whatever is living 8 billion years from now, if they are descended from us, won’t be recognizeable to us. Maybe only in the vaguest sense. The goal would be to have colonized other planets around other stars long long before then. Maybe in the next few thousand years even. It’s the only way to ensure universal scale long term survival and it’s a bit of a pipe dream yes, but that’s what makes efforts like Space X so interesting. It’s the dawn of that mission. Whether we can develop a mode of transportation to get us to another star is the next question and they are working on that problem. There’s an interesting 1-3 scale called Kardeshev Scale which will be important in that journey. It measures technology evolution by how much energy a society draws from its home Star. So level 1 would be drawing 100% of energy that reaches the planet. We’re not to level 1 yet. Level 2 would be drawing 100% of energy from the star. So that’s building a Dyson sphere. That might end up being required in reaching other stars, so just take a guess as to how long it will take to get any version of a Dyson sphere running.
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Post by Dave Stoller on Oct 29, 2020 0:12:42 GMT 1
I love discussions like this! And as you know the sun will burn out millions and millions of years from now. Right? I dunno what kind of human life will be around but I wonder what they will do if there is any. Will there be enough rocket ships to take them away if that should happen? Or would they go underground to live if the earth could survive such a thing? I'd be interested to get your thoughts on this. Good questions. And just to be a little more precise, the Sun is calculated to consume the Earth in around 8billion. That’s about 1.5x the current age of the Earth. So, no way to guess how life will evolve by then. We’ve evolved to this state in 5 billion and could only be considered human in the last 100-200 thousand. Prior to that we were homoerectus, homo habilis, etc all the way back to australopithecus about 5 million years ago when we were first branching away from the other great apes. Whatever is living 8 billion years from now, if they are descended from us, won’t be recognizeable to us. Maybe only in the vaguest sense. The goal would be to have colonized other planets around other stars long long before then. Maybe in the next few thousand years even. It’s the only way to ensure universal scale long term survival and it’s a bit of a pipe dream yes, but that’s what makes efforts like Space X so interesting. It’s the dawn of that mission. Whether we can develop a mode of transportation to get us to another star is the next question and they are working on that problem. There’s an interesting 1-3 scale called Kardeshev Scale which will be important in that journey. It measures technology evolution by how much energy a society draws from its home Star. So level 1 would be drawing 100% of energy that reaches the planet. We’re not to level 1 yet. Level 2 would be drawing 100% of energy from the star. So that’s building a Dyson sphere. That might end up being required in reaching other stars, so just take a guess as to how long it will take to get any version of a Dyson sphere running. If the population is the same or greater than it is now when the sun goes super nova and there are anything left on earth that is evolved from what we are now I just don't see how they would have enough rocket arks to carry all of them away or to save every last person. Well, there goes the Statue of Liberty and all our other beloved landmarks! Perhaps by then, as you sorta bring up, everyone will have left by then. You look like you have really done your homework on all this and are really intelligent with knowing it so I really appreciate our interactions and your contributions. And getting back to how things change for a moment... I went on a nearby hike here in Wisconsin last week and they had these signs describing interesting things. Like these rocks that were 500 million years old that were formed by sea water when Wisconsin was in the tropics! More mind blowing stuff. And who knows how the lands will have shifted yet some more in the future?
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Post by Dave Stoller on Oct 29, 2020 0:19:20 GMT 1
I think the "moon landings are fake" story is motivated by a desire to break down American achievements. The same way the JFK assassination is called an inside job. A more interesting conspiracy theory is whether the nuke explosions are real. It is hard to understand how a house could be filmed being blown apart in close up by a nuclear blast. Either it was an unbelievably powerful zoom lens or it was a small explosion--and if a small explosion, why aren't those bombs used in combat? Something doesn't add up. I don't think that is the motivation for thinking they are faked. I think that it is just way too unbelievable for those who think they are faked they just can't grasp that it was possible. As I pointed out. The sky is black. So someone forgot to drill holes and put in twinkling lights on the wall set? The nuke explosion is new to me and it is a good one. Yeah, and how did they protect the camera and film? And where can I get a zoom lens like that to see my hot looking neighbor chick when she gets out of the shower for bird filming?
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