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Post by Lord Death Man on Aug 3, 2020 17:22:54 GMT 1
I can't deny that I was one of the legions of fans who enjoyed those films when they debuted at the dawn of the century. I recognized the X-Men films for what they were at the time - state of the art films that were moving the genre forward. It was largely the talent of the main cast and the cutting edge special effects that kept me invested.
As a long time X-Men fan, though, the stories seemed very basic and often laughably silly. Magneto's plan to mutate the UN delegation was something right out of a West-era Batman episode.
When the X-Men films first started coming out, the X-Men comic books were moving away from the long-touted "feared and hated" narratives. If anything, comic book fans were enjoying a genuine "pride" moment with the X-Men and mutants in general. The X-Men were embracing their role as the next step in human evolution. They were no longer hiding in the shadows or trying to "pass." Most fans were responding well to the changes.
The films did provide the grounding and context general audiences needed to understand the X-Men mythos thematically. But the comic books and the fans were light years ahead of the "racism-bad" narrative. We were off to "New Worlds."
I think many hardcore fans got caught up in the movies because they were huge events at the time. They honestly really had nothing new or innovative to offer from a content perspective.
Looking back on the films, I see them as a much-needed stepping stone for the genre, but if I said that I thought they were classics or masterpieces, that would be a stretch. Re-watching all of the films recently, my opinion has been officially revised downward. I no longer have the energy or desire to be polite when discussing these films. I think the vast majority of them sucked.
Has anyone else had a similar change of heart about this series or any other series?
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Post by charzhino on Aug 3, 2020 21:17:59 GMT 1
No they dont, they are great. They have some of the best movies in the genre which a lotta people place very highly consistently. They are strongly centralised on Claremonts style of delivery rather than the new worlds moderno stuff where they ultimately become just like the rest instead of hitting their unique selling point. Im sure Disney will give us this diluted down lite flavour, a character pallete swapped version of what we've already seen the last 15 years, but more politicised to score some progressive points.
The Xmen films are as close as we will get to the soul of the comics/animated series which is rooted in adult, mature and heavy handed story telling.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 4, 2020 2:53:32 GMT 1
I can't deny that I was one of the legions of fans who enjoyed those films when they debuted at the dawn of the century. I recognized the X-Men films for what they were at the time - state of the art films that were moving the genre forward. It was largely the talent of the main cast and the cutting edge special effects that kept me invested. As a long time X-Men fan, though, the stories seemed very basic and often laughably silly. Magneto's plan to mutate the UN delegation was something right out of a West-era Batman episode. When the X-Men films first started coming out, the X-Men comic books were moving away from the long-touted "feared and hated" narratives. If anything, comic book fans were enjoying a genuine "pride" moment with the X-Men and mutants in general. The X-Men were embracing their role as the next step in human evolution. They were no longer hiding in the shadows or trying to "pass." Most fans were responding well to the changes. The films did provide the grounding and context general audiences needed to understand the X-Men mythos thematically. But the comic books and the fans were light years ahead of the "racism-bad" narrative. We were off to "New Worlds." I think many hardcore fans got caught up in the movies because they were huge events at the time. They honestly really had nothing new or innovative to offer from a content perspective. Looking back on the films, I see them as a much-needed stepping stone for the genre, but if I said that I thought they were classics or masterpieces, that would be a stretch. Re-watching all of the films recently, my opinion has been officially revised downward. I no longer have the energy or desire to be polite when discussing these films. I think the vast majority of them sucked. Has anyone else had a similar change of heart about this series or any other series? I actually still really love X1 and X2, and I thought Magneto's mutate the UN plan was pretty cool. Even if it didn't get them voting for his policies, it's still a big giant FU, which I think is epic. The entire sequence at the statue is fantastic. X2 for my money, remains an elite tier CBM. The twist of what Striker is trying to do, and then the double twist of Magneto having helped with the idea of turning it around on all humans was epic. The damn, lady deathstrike, everything in the plastic prison. I love it. X3 gets an ok from. It wasn't a franchise killer, it was just fine, with a few notable but ultimately not problematic choices and some genuinely grand moments. If we're talking not so great ending films of a series, then it's clearly better than something like Batman & Robin, and I'd say it's clearly over Spiderman 3, and probably right in line with TDKR on balance. I could never get into the reboot/prequel whatever it was era. First Class was fine to me, maybe better IDK, I know a lot of people like it, but I just wasn't ready for a new take yet, and maybe I could have been, but they didn't make it a prequel series. It just became this wandering WTF is going on series? And it never found a grove, which is why by the time Logan came out I just didn't care at all anymore. A lot of them are ok, like Logan, The Wolverine, DOFP, but none of them ever recaptured mattering to me like X1 and 2
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 4:07:38 GMT 1
Yep. Good for their time, but damn, they are antiquated.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 13:48:03 GMT 1
I can't deny that I was one of the legions of fans who enjoyed those films when they debuted at the dawn of the century. I recognized the X-Men films for what they were at the time - state of the art films that were moving the genre forward. It was largely the talent of the main cast and the cutting edge special effects that kept me invested. As a long time X-Men fan, though, the stories seemed very basic and often laughably silly. Magneto's plan to mutate the UN delegation was something right out of a West-era Batman episode. When the X-Men films first started coming out, the X-Men comic books were moving away from the long-touted "feared and hated" narratives. If anything, comic book fans were enjoying a genuine "pride" moment with the X-Men and mutants in general. The X-Men were embracing their role as the next step in human evolution. They were no longer hiding in the shadows or trying to "pass." Most fans were responding well to the changes. The films did provide the grounding and context general audiences needed to understand the X-Men mythos thematically. But the comic books and the fans were light years ahead of the "racism-bad" narrative. We were off to "New Worlds." I think many hardcore fans got caught up in the movies because they were huge events at the time. They honestly really had nothing new or innovative to offer from a content perspective. Looking back on the films, I see them as a much-needed stepping stone for the genre, but if I said that I thought they were classics or masterpieces, that would be a stretch. Re-watching all of the films recently, my opinion has been officially revised downward. I no longer have the energy or desire to be polite when discussing these films. I think the vast majority of them sucked. Has anyone else had a similar change of heart about this series or any other series? I actually still really love X1 and X2, and I thought Magneto's mutate the UN plan was pretty cool. Even if it didn't get them voting for his policies, it's still a big giant FU, which I think is epic. The entire sequence at the statue is fantastic. X2 for my money, remains an elite tier CBM. The twist of what Striker is trying to do, and then the double twist of Magneto having helped with the idea of turning it around on all humans was epic. The damn, lady deathstrike, everything in the plastic prison. I love it. X3 gets an ok from. It wasn't a franchise killer, it was just fine, with a few notable but ultimately not problematic choices and some genuinely grand moments. If we're talking not so great ending films of a series, then it's clearly better than something like Batman & Robin, and I'd say it's clearly over Spiderman 3, and probably right in line with TDKR on balance. I could never get into the reboot/prequel whatever it was era. First Class was fine to me, maybe better IDK, I know a lot of people like it, but I just wasn't ready for a new take yet, and maybe I could have been, but they didn't make it a prequel series. It just became this wandering WTF is going on series? And it never found a grove, which is why by the time Logan came out I just didn't care at all anymore. A lot of them are ok, like Logan, The Wolverine, DOFP, but none of them ever recaptured mattering to me like X1 and 2 X2 would have to be my favourite of the original trilogy. Pretty much for the reasons you already mentioned. Stryker was badass! Similarly Lady Deathstrike. As soon as she revealed her many and more adamantium 'claws', I think everyone had the same reaction Logan elicited. Oh fuck
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Post by Lord Death Man on Aug 4, 2020 13:56:50 GMT 1
I can't deny that I was one of the legions of fans who enjoyed those films when they debuted at the dawn of the century. I recognized the X-Men films for what they were at the time - state of the art films that were moving the genre forward. It was largely the talent of the main cast and the cutting edge special effects that kept me invested. As a long time X-Men fan, though, the stories seemed very basic and often laughably silly. Magneto's plan to mutate the UN delegation was something right out of a West-era Batman episode. When the X-Men films first started coming out, the X-Men comic books were moving away from the long-touted "feared and hated" narratives. If anything, comic book fans were enjoying a genuine "pride" moment with the X-Men and mutants in general. The X-Men were embracing their role as the next step in human evolution. They were no longer hiding in the shadows or trying to "pass." Most fans were responding well to the changes. The films did provide the grounding and context general audiences needed to understand the X-Men mythos thematically. But the comic books and the fans were light years ahead of the "racism-bad" narrative. We were off to "New Worlds." I think many hardcore fans got caught up in the movies because they were huge events at the time. They honestly really had nothing new or innovative to offer from a content perspective. Looking back on the films, I see them as a much-needed stepping stone for the genre, but if I said that I thought they were classics or masterpieces, that would be a stretch. Re-watching all of the films recently, my opinion has been officially revised downward. I no longer have the energy or desire to be polite when discussing these films. I think the vast majority of them sucked. Has anyone else had a similar change of heart about this series or any other series? I actually still really love X1 and X2, and I thought Magneto's mutate the UN plan was pretty cool. Even if it didn't get them voting for his policies, it's still a big giant FU, which I think is epic. The entire sequence at the statue is fantastic. X2 for my money, remains an elite tier CBM. The twist of what Striker is trying to do, and then the double twist of Magneto having helped with the idea of turning it around on all humans was epic. The damn, lady deathstrike, everything in the plastic prison. I love it. X3 gets an ok from. It wasn't a franchise killer, it was just fine, with a few notable but ultimately not problematic choices and some genuinely grand moments. If we're talking not so great ending films of a series, then it's clearly better than something like Batman & Robin, and I'd say it's clearly over Spiderman 3, and probably right in line with TDKR on balance. I could never get into the reboot/prequel whatever it was era. First Class was fine to me, maybe better IDK, I know a lot of people like it, but I just wasn't ready for a new take yet, and maybe I could have been, but they didn't make it a prequel series. It just became this wandering WTF is going on series? And it never found a grove, which is why by the time Logan came out I just didn't care at all anymore. A lot of them are ok, like Logan, The Wolverine, DOFP, but none of them ever recaptured mattering to me like X1 and 2 For me, it's just X1 and X2. The rest go from mediocre to horrible. It doesn't help that Brian Singer's on-set antics and deviant behavior seem to cast a long shadow on the legacy of the franchise. The real price we paid to get even two good films out of that franchise may have been too high. Again, I give them credit for what they were - solid building blocks for future CBMs, but as an avid reader of the comic books, I can't help but think the films only ever had a passing resemblance to the source material. Call it a hot take or whatever, but I can't keep acting like those films matter to me or should be worshiped. As an aside, my experience with diehard Fox X-Men fans is that they either don't read the comics at all or they came to them after seeing the films. No judgments, of course - it's just interesting to note. Maybe if I'd have seen the movies before reading the comics, I'd hold the films in higher regard as well.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 4, 2020 14:05:09 GMT 1
I actually still really love X1 and X2, and I thought Magneto's mutate the UN plan was pretty cool. Even if it didn't get them voting for his policies, it's still a big giant FU, which I think is epic. The entire sequence at the statue is fantastic. X2 for my money, remains an elite tier CBM. The twist of what Striker is trying to do, and then the double twist of Magneto having helped with the idea of turning it around on all humans was epic. The damn, lady deathstrike, everything in the plastic prison. I love it. X3 gets an ok from. It wasn't a franchise killer, it was just fine, with a few notable but ultimately not problematic choices and some genuinely grand moments. If we're talking not so great ending films of a series, then it's clearly better than something like Batman & Robin, and I'd say it's clearly over Spiderman 3, and probably right in line with TDKR on balance. I could never get into the reboot/prequel whatever it was era. First Class was fine to me, maybe better IDK, I know a lot of people like it, but I just wasn't ready for a new take yet, and maybe I could have been, but they didn't make it a prequel series. It just became this wandering WTF is going on series? And it never found a grove, which is why by the time Logan came out I just didn't care at all anymore. A lot of them are ok, like Logan, The Wolverine, DOFP, but none of them ever recaptured mattering to me like X1 and 2 For me, it's just X1 and X2. The rest go from mediocre to horrible. It doesn't help that Brian Singer's on-set antics and deviant behavior seem to cast a long shadow on the legacy of the franchise. The real price we paid to get even two good films out of that franchise may have been too high. Again, I give them credit for what they were - solid building blocks for future CBMs, but as an avid reader of the comic books, I can't help but think the films only ever had a passing resemblance to the source material. Call it a hot take or whatever, but I can't keep acting like those films matter to me or should be worshiped. As an aside, my experience with diehard Fox X-Men fans is that they either don't read the comics at all or they came to them after seeing the films. No judgments, of course - it's just interesting to note. Maybe if I'd have seen the movies before reading the comics, I'd hold the films in higher regard as well. Yeah that’s fair enough. I basically have the same relationship with the older Spidey films. One note on Singer, and I’m not at all defending him. I’m just that person who completely separates the art from the artist. Like my perspective on the films wouldn’t change no matter what somebody had said or done. I do recognize it leaves a stain for others but I dont know what that’s like.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Aug 4, 2020 14:13:47 GMT 1
For me, it's just X1 and X2. The rest go from mediocre to horrible. It doesn't help that Brian Singer's on-set antics and deviant behavior seem to cast a long shadow on the legacy of the franchise. The real price we paid to get even two good films out of that franchise may have been too high. Again, I give them credit for what they were - solid building blocks for future CBMs, but as an avid reader of the comic books, I can't help but think the films only ever had a passing resemblance to the source material. Call it a hot take or whatever, but I can't keep acting like those films matter to me or should be worshiped. As an aside, my experience with diehard Fox X-Men fans is that they either don't read the comics at all or they came to them after seeing the films. No judgments, of course - it's just interesting to note. Maybe if I'd have seen the movies before reading the comics, I'd hold the films in higher regard as well. Yeah that’s fair enough. I basically have the same relationship with the older Spidey films. One note on Singer, and I’m not at all defending him. I’m just that person who completely separates the art from the artist. Like my perspective on the films wouldn’t change no matter what somebody had said or done. I do recognize it leaves a stain for others but I dont know what that’s like. I used to feel the same way, but Singer's behavior, if ever proved true, was beyond disgusting. I have an extremely low tolerance for the abuse or exploitation of children. If that was the price we had to pay for two "high-quality" films in an otherwise middling franchise, as I said, it was too high. Genius just isn't a good excuse anymore.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 4, 2020 14:26:18 GMT 1
Yeah that’s fair enough. I basically have the same relationship with the older Spidey films. One note on Singer, and I’m not at all defending him. I’m just that person who completely separates the art from the artist. Like my perspective on the films wouldn’t change no matter what somebody had said or done. I do recognize it leaves a stain for others but I dont know what that’s like. I used to feel the same way, but Singer's behavior, if ever proved true, was beyond disgusting. I have an extremely low tolerance for the abuse or exploitation of children. If that was the price we had to pay for two "high-quality" films in an otherwise middling franchise, as I said, it was too high. Genius just isn't a good excuse anymore. For sure and in case there’s doubt I’m definitely not excusing him. They can draw and quarter the bastard. It’s just I’m not thinking about what he did while watching the films. The same with political opinions of actors. Like I don’t care what they’ve said, I’m just watching a movie. Side question - I feel like I’ve been obnoxious recently. Overly grumbly, nitpicky, bitchy, etc? Anybody else getting that?
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Post by Lord Death Man on Aug 4, 2020 15:39:31 GMT 1
I used to feel the same way, but Singer's behavior, if ever proved true, was beyond disgusting. I have an extremely low tolerance for the abuse or exploitation of children. If that was the price we had to pay for two "high-quality" films in an otherwise middling franchise, as I said, it was too high. Genius just isn't a good excuse anymore. For sure and in case there’s doubt I’m definitely not excusing him. They can draw and quarter the bastard. It’s just I’m not thinking about what he did while watching the films. The same with political opinions of actors. Like I don’t care what they’ve said, I’m just watching a movie. Side question - I feel like I’ve been obnoxious recently. Overly grumbly, nitpicky, bitchy, etc? Anybody else getting that? That makes sense. For whatever reason, I can't help but think of Singer's actions as I watch the films. I must be getting soft in my old age. It's not even what he did that is so troublesome as much as the fact that he is very likely to get away with it. I know that's naïve in the extreme because a lot of bad people get away with heinous shit. I haven't noticed anything unusual about your posts. I think everyone gets caught up in minutia from time to time - especially when it comes to CBMs. People do seem to be a bit more combative on the other message boards I frequent. I don't take it personally, everyone is on edge these days.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Aug 4, 2020 17:49:04 GMT 1
Logan is good. All the others are just plain mediocre. Most of them have some good points but they also have so many bad points that keep them from being really good.
(If you want to count the Deadpool movies in this group then they are good too)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 18:15:21 GMT 1
For me, it's just X1 and X2. The rest go from mediocre to horrible. It doesn't help that Brian Singer's on-set antics and deviant behavior seem to cast a long shadow on the legacy of the franchise. The real price we paid to get even two good films out of that franchise may have been too high. Again, I give them credit for what they were - solid building blocks for future CBMs, but as an avid reader of the comic books, I can't help but think the films only ever had a passing resemblance to the source material. Call it a hot take or whatever, but I can't keep acting like those films matter to me or should be worshiped. As an aside, my experience with diehard Fox X-Men fans is that they either don't read the comics at all or they came to them after seeing the films. No judgments, of course - it's just interesting to note. Maybe if I'd have seen the movies before reading the comics, I'd hold the films in higher regard as well. Yeah that’s fair enough. I basically have the same relationship with the older Spidey films.
One note on Singer, and I’m not at all defending him. I’m just that person who completely separates the art from the artist. Like my perspective on the films wouldn’t change no matter what somebody had said or done. I do recognize it leaves a stain for others but I dont know what that’s like. I actually have an easier time going back to the Raimi films these days. I'm still no fan of them, but at least they wanted to be Spider-Man films, wholesale, and Raimi is about as wholesome as a modern Hollywood director is going to get.
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Post by AQUA SALZ! on Aug 13, 2020 21:48:56 GMT 1
Anyone else just find them super-goofy? I tried watching them about a year (or longer?) ago for one of the ‘Salzmank Reviews’ threads, and I couldn’t actually watch the entirety of X2, it just came off as badly acted and directed and more than anything silly pretending to be serious. Jackman gave a particularly poor performance, and I like him as an actor. Meanwhile, the Raimi Spideys more than hold up for me.
I once started watching X3 and liked it more, largely for Kelsey Grammer, though. Have to watch the whole thing one of these days.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2020 22:33:07 GMT 1
Anyone else just find them super-goofy? I tried watching them about a year (or longer?) ago for one of the ‘Salzmank Reviews’ threads, and I couldn’t actually watch the entirety of X2, it just came off as badly acted and directed and more than anything silly pretending to be serious. Jackman gave a particularly poor performance, and I like him as an actor. Meanwhile, the Raimi Spideys more than hold up for me. I once started watching X3 and liked it more, largely for Kelsey Grammer, though. Have to watch the whole thing one of these days. HERETIC! Just kidding. But yeah, the Raimi films do hold up better. It's odd, because I used to swear by the X-Men and easily put them above the Raimi films, which I hated even more back then. Since then, it's a total 180. I still don't like the Raimi films, but the X-Men are just terrible to me these days.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2020 5:01:01 GMT 1
They're great!
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Post by charzhino on Aug 14, 2020 16:12:22 GMT 1
Anyone else just find them super-goofy? I tried watching them about a year (or longer?) ago for one of the ‘Salzmank Reviews’ threads, and I couldn’t actually watch the entirety of X2, it just came off as badly acted and directed and more than anything silly pretending to be serious. Sounds exactly like most MCU movies
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Aug 15, 2020 12:04:50 GMT 1
X-Men 2 is one of my favorites and easily one of the best of the genre.
I do feel like things will get controversial once Marvel Studios starts making their own X-Men films.
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Aug 15, 2020 17:33:00 GMT 1
I never really got into the "OT" so I viewed the "PT" as an opportunity to "start from the beginning"
I liked FC and loved DoFP.
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Post by detour on Aug 16, 2020 17:58:05 GMT 1
I still love X2, FC, DoFP, both DEADPOOLs and LOGAN, can watch them at the drop of a hat.
The original, LAST STAND, XO:W and THE WOLVERINE are still lots of fun for me, despite their flaws.
The rest are hit-or-miss, all have some good moments, but also fail in many areas. But they are still watchable, in lesser doses, for me.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Aug 16, 2020 19:02:51 GMT 1
I still love X2, FC, DoFP, both DEADPOOLs and LOGAN, can watch them at the drop of a hat. The original, LAST STAND, XO:W and THE WOLVERINE are still lots of fun for me, despite their flaws. The rest are hit-or-miss, all have some good moments, but also fail in many areas. But they are still watchable, in lesser doses, for me. That's totally fair, and I suspect it's how the majority of people feel. I started noticing a sharp delineation between hardcore fans of the series and casual fans of the films/genre. Die-hards seem to love the vast majority of the films in the series, while genre fans who are less invested are feeling like the films are aging poorly. I don't really see myself watching them again anytime soon, maybe not for a few years. To each their own, I suppose. Thanks for sharing.
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