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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 7, 2021 22:40:00 GMT 1
Feige did promise that we'll see LGBTQ+ representation in the MCU. So if that's something that you don't like or want to hear about, time to abandon ship. It's a sci-fi element they've been doing for years in the comics. Starkhawk, for instance, would famously pop up from alternate realities as male and female versions in the same issue. I'm not even sure it's a social commentary, so I don't see any real need to set it up as a controversial topic. "in another timeline your conception resulted in an opposite sex child" isn't IMO controversial or even a significant statement. It's just the next sperm cell over.
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Jun 7, 2021 22:49:53 GMT 1
Feige did promise that we'll see LGBTQ+ representation in the MCU. So if that's something that you don't like or want to hear about, time to abandon ship. It's a sci-fi element they've been doing for years in the comics. Starkhawk, for instance, would famously pop up from alternate realities as male and female versions in the same issue. I'm not even sure it's a social commentary, so I don't see any real need to set it up as a controversial topic. "in another timeline your conception resulted in an opposite sex child" isn't IMO controversial or even a significant statement. It's just the next sperm cell over. It's not so much as a controversial topic but rather just a heads up.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 7, 2021 23:26:59 GMT 1
It's a sci-fi element they've been doing for years in the comics. Starkhawk, for instance, would famously pop up from alternate realities as male and female versions in the same issue. I'm not even sure it's a social commentary, so I don't see any real need to set it up as a controversial topic. "in another timeline your conception resulted in an opposite sex child" isn't IMO controversial or even a significant statement. It's just the next sperm cell over. It's not so much as a controversial topic but rather just a heads up. Since I don’t watch trailers I might be missing something. What exactly are you expecting to be controversial? Personally I don’t see the presence of a female Loki as even a comment on gender fluidity. Every one of us was once surrounded by millions of sperm cells, to the left, to the right, up and down. And if any of them had won that race instead, there would be an entirely different person in the world. But I’m wondering if there’s something else going on I haven’t seen yet?
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Post by Grandmaster on Jun 8, 2021 12:18:59 GMT 1
Actually its sperm cell no. (+/-) 100 that gets to be the wurm.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 13:48:29 GMT 1
To be fair he's a shapeshifter, so him being Genderfluid makes sense. Thats an ability though Btw gotta make another point. Just because I have the ability to run fast, does that make me gender fluid too now?
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Jun 8, 2021 17:32:52 GMT 1
The character is also Genderfluid in the comics as well. www.inverse.com/entertainment/loki-gender-fluid-marvel-tom-hiddlestonAs I said before Feige is promising more LGBTQ characters inclusion in the MCU. We're getting a married gay couple in Eternals and a lesbian character in Doctor Strange 2. If the LGBTQ+ stuff is something you don't like or don't want to hear about, well I guess it's time for you to abandon the MCU.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 8, 2021 19:58:49 GMT 1
Interesting discussion...
The Loki of Marvel comics was born the male child of the frost giant Laufey. He is gender fluid because he is a shapeshifter. I understand that your assigned gender isn't relevant in the context of gender fluidity/conversion, but most of the time, Loki appears as a male.
The question for me is, will a Loki variant change into a female. Or, will we meet a separate Loki born female and distinct from the variant we are following in the show? Either way, the LGBTQ+ community seems happy to welcome the God of mischief into their ranks.
In the context of the multiple worlds theory of time travel, everyone is gender fluid because there must be one or more timelines in which you were born a different gender. This not so much a function of gender politics as it is a function of science fiction (see David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself).
It's interesting to note that if this discussion were taking place in the 90s, the LGBTQ+ community might not be as keen on Loki as they appear to be now. Before his makeover as a young, handsome, and vigorous rake, he was a middle-aged curmudgeon associated with deception, the occult, and general deviousness. I hope we see a comic-book accurate variant of Loki from his 1960s to 1990s period.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 20:59:26 GMT 1
The character is also Genderfluid in the comics as well. www.inverse.com/entertainment/loki-gender-fluid-marvel-tom-hiddlestonAs I said before Feige is promising more LGBTQ characters inclusion in the MCU. We're getting a married gay couple in Eternals and a lesbian character in Doctor Strange 2. If the LGBTQ+ stuff is something you don't like or don't want to hear about, well I guess it's time for you to abandon the MCU. It's clear from the link you provided that he isnt. He just transforms. Odin was probably just the writers pandering to the lgbt crowd or just referring to the fact that he transforms Also kind of funny that this passage contradicts itself: When Loki later takes on a female form to blend in with the society, she’s only referred to with she/her pronouns. This isn’t a disguise, it’s just another form of Loki.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 8, 2021 22:36:02 GMT 1
The character is also Genderfluid in the comics as well. www.inverse.com/entertainment/loki-gender-fluid-marvel-tom-hiddlestonAs I said before Feige is promising more LGBTQ characters inclusion in the MCU. We're getting a married gay couple in Eternals and a lesbian character in Doctor Strange 2. If the LGBTQ+ stuff is something you don't like or don't want to hear about, well I guess it's time for you to abandon the MCU. I don't understand, Are you trying to make it awkward or something? It actually sounds like you're trying to make it divisive TBH I think anybody here understands that gay people exist.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 8, 2021 22:45:54 GMT 1
In the context of the multiple worlds theory of time travel, everyone is gender fluid because there must be one or more timelines in which you were born a different gender. This not so much a function of gender politics as it is a function of science fiction (see David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself). In terms of science, of which I follow (I have several books by notable physicists and biologists that are written to explain in common terms how the biggest questions of reality work up to our latest discoveries), an alt reality different gender you, isn't really you at all. It's biologically an entirely different person. Marginally different genetics, etc. I mean really, it's a fascinating idea that if any of the millions of sperm that accompanied the one that made you, or me, or anybody, had simply come in second place to any of the others, you wouldn't exist. We'd have Queen Death Man, or Jester Death Man, or Squire Death Man, or King Death Man. Someone different who shared effectively half of your DNA, and if you met them, would be the equivalent of a fraternal twin. Decidedly not the same person. This to me is nothing like the concept of gender fluidity. Undoubtedly there are many people who feel some definition of a middle ground between the rigidly defined man and woman classifications, and that's fine. I myself am a rigidly defined male, and perhaps that's a bias towards the whole concept, but regardless, I don't view "alternate reality female versions" of characters as gender fluid, so much as, a fraternal twin you never had.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 8, 2021 23:54:32 GMT 1
In the context of the multiple worlds theory of time travel, everyone is gender fluid because there must be one or more timelines in which you were born a different gender. This not so much a function of gender politics as it is a function of science fiction (see David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself). In terms of science, of which I follow (I have several books by notable physicists and biologists that are written to explain in common terms how the biggest questions of reality work up to our latest discoveries), an alt reality different gender you, isn't really you at all. It's biologically an entirely different person. Marginally different genetics, etc. I mean really, it's a fascinating idea that if any of the millions of sperm that accompanied the one that made you, or me, or anybody, had simply come in second place to any of the others, you wouldn't exist. We'd have Queen Death Man, or Jester Death Man, or Squire Death Man, or King Death Man. Someone different who shared effectively half of your DNA, and if you met them, would be the equivalent of a fraternal twin. Decidedly not the same person. This to me is nothing like the nothing like the concept of gender fluidity. Undoubtedly there are many people who feel some definition of a middle ground between the rigidly defined man and woman classifications, and that's fine. I myself am a rigidly defined male, and perhaps that's a bias towards the whole concept, but regardless, I don't view "alternate reality female versions" of characters as gender fluid, so much as, fraternal twin you never had. I don't disagree; I was outlining the popularly held beliefs in science-fiction (which differs greatly from real-world science). I don't necessarily see Loki as gender-fluid because, A) as I'm told on Twitter, I don't really understand the concept, and B). I think Loki would have to shapeshift into a woman and live her life that way in the MCU for the term to be anything more than a very loose association.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 7:54:11 GMT 1
The character is also Genderfluid in the comics as well. www.inverse.com/entertainment/loki-gender-fluid-marvel-tom-hiddlestonAs I said before Feige is promising more LGBTQ characters inclusion in the MCU. We're getting a married gay couple in Eternals and a lesbian character in Doctor Strange 2. If the LGBTQ+ stuff is something you don't like or don't want to hear about, well I guess it's time for you to abandon the MCU. I don't understand, Are you trying to make it awkward or something? It actually sounds like you're trying to make it divisive TBH I think anybody here understands that gay people exist. He's trying to "cancel" some Marvel viewers. Aren't you AQUA KEN!? You can be honest
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 7:58:07 GMT 1
Interesting discussion... The Loki of Marvel comics was born the male child of the frost giant Laufey. He is gender fluid because he is a shapeshifter. I can kind of support this part
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 7:59:22 GMT 1
In terms of science, of which I follow (I have several books by notable physicists and biologists that are written to explain in common terms how the biggest questions of reality work up to our latest discoveries), an alt reality different gender you, isn't really you at all. It's biologically an entirely different person. Marginally different genetics, etc. I mean really, it's a fascinating idea that if any of the millions of sperm that accompanied the one that made you, or me, or anybody, had simply come in second place to any of the others, you wouldn't exist. We'd have Queen Death Man, or Jester Death Man, or Squire Death Man, or King Death Man. Someone different who shared effectively half of your DNA, and if you met them, would be the equivalent of a fraternal twin. Decidedly not the same person. This to me is nothing like the nothing like the concept of gender fluidity. Undoubtedly there are many people who feel some definition of a middle ground between the rigidly defined man and woman classifications, and that's fine. I myself am a rigidly defined male, and perhaps that's a bias towards the whole concept, but regardless, I don't view "alternate reality female versions" of characters as gender fluid, so much as, fraternal twin you never had. I don't disagree; I was outlining the popularly held beliefs in science-fiction (which differs greatly from real-world science). I don't necessarily see Loki as gender-fluid because, A) as I'm told on Twitter, I don't really understand the concept, and B). I think Loki would have to shapeshift into a woman and live her life that way in the MCU for the term to be anything more than a very loose association. Always good to be told that by twitter "experts" lol
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Post by Grandmaster on Jun 9, 2021 8:47:24 GMT 1
Nice first episode. I loved the dynamic between Loki and Mobius.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 10:03:00 GMT 1
Nice first episode. I loved the dynamic between Loki and Mobius. Awesome. About to start myself
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 11:28:46 GMT 1
I give it a 7/10. A foundational episode, to be expected I suppose. Introed to a whole new world. Weird seeing Loki not fully equipped for so long, yet the character still packs a punch when he gets the lay of the land. I expect the next episode to fly high now thats out of the way
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Jun 9, 2021 13:50:52 GMT 1
I don't understand, Are you trying to make it awkward or something? It actually sounds like you're trying to make it divisive TBH I think anybody here understands that gay people exist. He's trying to "cancel" some Marvel viewers. Aren't you AQUA KEN!? You can be honest Nah, I'm not the canceling type.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2021 11:54:09 GMT 1
He's trying to "cancel" some Marvel viewers. Aren't you AQUA KEN! ? You can be honest Nah, I'm not the canceling type. Gotta admit Knight. I was kind of trolling you lol
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2021 12:08:28 GMT 1
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Jun 10, 2021 14:35:42 GMT 1
I liked the first episode, this show has potential.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 10, 2021 14:41:18 GMT 1
Loved it! The first half starts off as an awesomely cool sci fi introduction to a new area. The place is creepy, mysterious, and quirky, but also impressive. The TVA almost works like any boring government office which contrasts nicely with the high advancement, which is all run by 70’s style tech. Beautiful the whole thing is gorgeous. The second half is a surprisingly personal Loki story. Remember this is concurring Earth Loki at the height of his ego, and the episode is about cutting him down. It happens slowly as he has trouble accepting his situation. He might even go through the 7 stages of grief, I haven’t counted it up, but he ends up at a breaking point. When he sees the infinity stones from other timelines are inert, he realizes he has no power and submits. He witnesses the end of his life, and he accepts that’s he’s now in this one. A lot of questions to go here. A lot. But this is off to a rocking start.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Jun 10, 2021 15:51:17 GMT 1
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 10, 2021 17:12:08 GMT 1
The show is definitely off to a good start. I was fortunate enough to see a fair amount of episode 2 and the pilot. I'm happy with the direction they're going in. It's pure entertainment and escapist fantasy without the trappings of any lofty ideals. I'm impressed by how quickly the show has introduced fairly complex worldbuilding that functions on multiple levels. Something does not ring true about the timekeepers and their "sacred timeline," and I think the rampaging variant has discovered the truth. I was also impressed by the decision to turn the infinity stones into useless costume jewelry when they're outside of time. That raises the stakes for me. We're not just dealing with weapons or artifacts that end life; the existence of the universe and all-time could be at stake. I love the music, the production design, VFX, and the writing feels very character-appropriate to Loki. Owens and Hiddleston couldn't be better paired - they have great chemistry. When they sat across from each other in episode one, the show felt like a play for an instant and less like a big-budget Marvel actioner. My least favorite part of what I've seen so far is their insistence on breaking with established rules surrounding time travel. That could be TVA propaganda, though. My favorite aspect of this show is that this variant Loki has nowhere to go, and he must deal with his failure as a would-be-conqueror head-on. It gives him some latitude to reinvent himself.
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Post by AQUA CAT! on Jun 10, 2021 17:33:34 GMT 1
I'll weigh in on Friday/Saturday, once I get the chance to mooc-- watch with my Disney + having friends.
Looking forward to the Darth Vader cameo!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2021 21:02:07 GMT 1
The show is definitely off to a good start. I was fortunate enough to see a fair amount of episode 2 and the pilot. I'm happy with the direction they're going in. It's pure entertainment and escapist fantasy without the trappings of any lofty ideals. I'm impressed by how quickly the show has introduced fairly complex worldbuilding that functions on multiple levels. Something does not ring true about the timekeepers and their "sacred timeline," and I think the rampaging variant has discovered the truth. I was also impressed by the decision to turn the infinity stones into useless costume jewelry when they're outside of time. That raises the stakes for me. We're not just dealing with weapons or artifacts that end life; the existence of the universe and all-time could be at stake. I love the music, the production design, VFX, and the writing feels very character-appropriate to Loki. Owens and Hiddleston couldn't be better paired - they have great chemistry. When they sat across from each other in episode one, the show felt like a play for an instant and less like a bid-budget Marvel actioner. My least favorite part of what I've seen so far is their insistence on breaking with established rules surrounding time travel. That could be TVA propaganda, though. My favorite aspect of this show is that this variant Loki has nowhere to go, and he must deal with his failure as a would-be-conqueror head-on. It gives him some latitude to reinvent himself. How did you come by the second episode?? Also, the better question, why in seven hells did you not watch all of it? Is it better than the pilot?
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 10, 2021 21:48:05 GMT 1
The show is definitely off to a good start. I was fortunate enough to see a fair amount of episode 2 and the pilot. I'm happy with the direction they're going in. It's pure entertainment and escapist fantasy without the trappings of any lofty ideals. I'm impressed by how quickly the show has introduced fairly complex worldbuilding that functions on multiple levels. Something does not ring true about the timekeepers and their "sacred timeline," and I think the rampaging variant has discovered the truth. I was also impressed by the decision to turn the infinity stones into useless costume jewelry when they're outside of time. That raises the stakes for me. We're not just dealing with weapons or artifacts that end life; the existence of the universe and all-time could be at stake. I love the music, the production design, VFX, and the writing feels very character-appropriate to Loki. Owens and Hiddleston couldn't be better paired - they have great chemistry. When they sat across from each other in episode one, the show felt like a play for an instant and less like a bid-budget Marvel actioner. My least favorite part of what I've seen so far is their insistence on breaking with established rules surrounding time travel. That could be TVA propaganda, though. My favorite aspect of this show is that this variant Loki has nowhere to go, and he must deal with his failure as a would-be-conqueror head-on. It gives him some latitude to reinvent himself. How did you come by the second episode?? Also, the better question, why in seven hells did you not watch all of it? Is it better than the pilot? A friend of mine got the screeners through his work. He invited a few of us over to check it out. I got there late so I didn't see all of episode two before the screener link gave out or whatever. From what I saw, the second episode looked strong, but it leans quite a bit on comedy and nostalgia.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Jun 10, 2021 22:44:48 GMT 1
RT score; 95%
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 1:02:17 GMT 1
Pompeii? Looks like it, though this MCU Loki wasn’t alive then, so the person they’re chasing is time slipping outside of Loki’s personal history.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 1:16:12 GMT 1
Interesting discussion... The Loki of Marvel comics was born the male child of the frost giant Laufey. He is gender fluid because he is a shapeshifter. I understand that your assigned gender isn't relevant in the context of gender fluidity/conversion, but most of the time, Loki appears as a male. The question for me is, will a Loki variant change into a female. Or, will we meet a separate Loki born female and distinct from the variant we are following in the show? Either way, the LGBTQ+ community seems happy to welcome the God of mischief into their ranks. In the context of the multiple worlds theory of time travel, everyone is gender fluid because there must be one or more timelines in which you were born a different gender. This not so much a function of gender politics as it is a function of science fiction (see David Gerrold's The Man Who Folded Himself). It's interesting to note that if this discussion were taking place in the 90s, the LGBTQ+ community might not be as keen on Loki as they appear to be now. Before his makeover as a young, handsome, and vigorous rake, he was a middle-aged curmudgeon associated with deception, the occult, and general deviousness. I hope we see a comic-book accurate variant of Loki from his 1960s to 1990s period. I think DiMartino is the female Loki, but I doubt they will dwell on Loki’s gender that much. I noticed on a photo posted of Loki’s rap sheet, it says “Sex: Fluid,” not “Gender: Fluid,” so it can be assumed he’s capable of bearing children as a sexed female as well as fathering them as a male. Of course, they could make Loki a character who is more than one person who can exist by themselves or as a unit. His multilocation abilities hint at that. But I guess the real worry for some is will the male Loki fall in love with another man.
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