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Post by maximura on Jul 16, 2021 11:42:57 GMT 1
It wasn't thin skin so much as the assumption of the cause of my reasoning. Holier than thou is incorrect because I don't care if it exists in The Boys and Watchmen. Both of those properties were intended for the extreme and adult audience from the outset. Both also instantly went into power sex, including crushing a guys skull through the wall and sending spikes through a guy's head from orgasm. Further, clearly I understand what a ratings system is and the assumption to the contrary is basically calling me an idiot. What I'm suggesting is that the ratings system is wildly imperfect when dealing with parents that aren't expecting to have to check Batman for a rating in case of lewd sex acts. Converting an existing children's product into something else is my issue because the child is already hooked and the parent has already vetted it for problems years before. The parent has no reason to check it and the kid isn't going to announce it until he's suddenly running around the room yelling about orgasms. It's a sleight of hand trick. I assure you, I'm no prude, and I have no sexual hangups other than we shouldn't intentionally lure children into sex. There's nothing incidental about it and it's unreasonable to assume that a ratings label in that scenario will get anywhere near 100%. If there isn't an overwhelmingly compelling reason for Bat-head, it shouldn't exist specifically because it is already a known safe children's series. Fair enough but if you're concerned about that, they can only be protected so much. Kids will be kids, they will do whatever they want regardless of restrictions or parental rules. This cant be stopped. I certainly couldnt and I can only assume it was the same for you Society has done its best in this case ergo the rating Yeah, I'm good with ratings until they're spontaneously changed in unexpected ways. If Batman gets an R, I just assume violence and move on with my day rather than researching it. Deadpool and Punisher are similar but have always been known murder fests. I expect extreme violence and some language and could understand parents withholding those comics from their younger children. I'd probably watch them first and then let the kid see it if I approved or he got older. I had a friend in middle school that wasn't allowed to read Ghost Rider comics because of all the religious aspects. Not one parent is expecting the rating of a Batman story to be a needed check. Did you ever watch Adam West and Robin and think, "man, he may end up going down on Catwoman at any moment"? It just isn't where people's heads go, so the rating system is effectively meaningless in this circumstance unless you do an international advertising campaign to alert people to the change in Batman expectations. People were clutching their pearls over guns on the Batmobile.
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Post by primemcgee on Jul 20, 2021 6:57:59 GMT 1
Superheroes were created as juvenile fantasy adventure stories. They work best as that. Arguably they were not considered the best literature for children when they appeared-it wasn't the Hardy Boys.
I think the efforts to turn it into something like Taxi Driver or Basic Instinct is misguided and creatively perverse--it's as dumb as taking the Maltese Falcon and turning that into a children's story about a singing gumshoe and his pet bird who solve mysteries. There's no point making Sam Spade into a children's character.
Even Alan Moore, who popularized this trend of adding gritty realism to the comic character--he said--it's meant for kids. It's supposed to accessible to kids-that doesn't mean adults can't enjoy it. But adding these unnecessary character elements to superheroes shows the loss of focus on the adventure side of things.
It's not very imaginative.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 9:20:12 GMT 1
Superheroes were created as juvenile fantasy adventure stories. They work best as that. Arguably they were not considered the best literature for children when they appeared-it wasn't the Hardy Boys. I think the efforts to turn it into something like Taxi Driver or Basic Instinct is misguided and creatively perverse--it's as dumb as taking the Maltese Falcon and turning that into a children's story about a singing gumshoe and his pet bird who solve mysteries. There's no point making Sam Spade into a children's character. Even Alan Moore, who popularized this trend of adding gritty realism to the comic character--he said--it's meant for kids. It's supposed to accessible to kids-that doesn't mean adults can't enjoy it. But adding these unnecessary character elements to superheroes shows the loss of focus on the adventure side of things. It's not very imaginative. Each to their own I guess. Though Alan Moore is being a bit hypocritical I loved Punisher Max and that comic series is extremely brutal, with adult themes. Way harder than the show. It even has a couple of "dirty" sex scenes . Actually one of them was quite dirty but it fit the vibe of the story. Not so much the act itself but who it was between
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Post by primemcgee on Jul 20, 2021 18:04:53 GMT 1
I loved Punisher Max and that comic series is extremely brutal, with adult themes. Way harder than the show. It even has a couple of "dirty" sex scenes . Actually one of them was quite dirty but it fit the vibe of the story. Not so much the act itself but who it was between Punisher is not a superhero. He's based on a 1960s series of novels-the Destroyer or something. Not created for kids.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 18:13:14 GMT 1
Can we really still say “superheroes are only for kids” at this point? Does that mean I’m a pathetic man child for having a statue of Captain America in my living room? On second thought, no one answer that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 19:44:51 GMT 1
I loved Punisher Max and that comic series is extremely brutal, with adult themes. Way harder than the show. It even has a couple of "dirty" sex scenes . Actually one of them was quite dirty but it fit the vibe of the story. Not so much the act itself but who it was between Punisher is not a superhero. He's based on a 1960s series of novels-the Destroyer or something. Not created for kids.
However, still a significant part of Marvel
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Post by primemcgee on Jul 20, 2021 20:57:56 GMT 1
However, still a significant part of Marvel Yes but he isn't a superhero, technically speaking. I am thinking of superheroes. The cape, the costumes, the super powers.
Some of them are not really in the genre.
Black Widow originally looked like a Batman tv villainess and then they copied Emma Peel from the Avengers series.
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Jul 21, 2021 16:38:04 GMT 1
Man fuck that! Let Batman eat pussy and ass, Hell let him suck some dick as well! Let him take a couple of dicks in the ass.
There's way too many people who are scared of sex, Especially in entertainment.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 3:44:52 GMT 1
Man fuck that! Let Batman eat pussy and ass, Hell let him suck some dick as well! Let him take a couple of dicks in the ass. There's way too many people who are scared of sex, Especially in entertainment. Why stop there? Let him jerk off a monkey lol
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 22, 2021 5:28:00 GMT 1
Superheroes were created as juvenile fantasy adventure stories. They work best as that. Arguably they were not considered the best literature for children when they appeared-it wasn't the Hardy Boys. I think the efforts to turn it into something like Taxi Driver or Basic Instinct is misguided and creatively perverse--it's as dumb as taking the Maltese Falcon and turning that into a children's story about a singing gumshoe and his pet bird who solve mysteries. There's no point making Sam Spade into a children's character. Even Alan Moore, who popularized this trend of adding gritty realism to the comic character--he said--it's meant for kids. It's supposed to accessible to kids-that doesn't mean adults can't enjoy it. But adding these unnecessary character elements to superheroes shows the loss of focus on the adventure side of things. It's not very imaginative. Agreed, and if graphic sex and violence is your thing, it should be relegated to newer characters with those elements baked into their tone. Retrofitting older characters to be foul-mouthed, alcoholic nymphomaniacs is just weird. You can always read the Boys for that kind of stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 6:07:49 GMT 1
No Batman Returns fans in the house? Lots of sexuality in that film. Catwoman even grabs Batman by the ******. And America loved it.
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Post by primemcgee on Jul 22, 2021 7:39:36 GMT 1
Agreed, and if graphic sex and violence is your thing, it should be relegated to newer characters with those elements baked into their tone. Retrofitting older characters to be foul-mouthed, alcoholic nymphomaniacs is just weird. You can always read the Boys for that kind of stuff. Or they can join the Legion of Doom
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 9:33:59 GMT 1
No Batman Returns fans in the house? Lots of sexuality in that film. Catwoman even grabs Batman by the ******. And America loved it. Great point lol
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 9:36:53 GMT 1
Superheroes were created as juvenile fantasy adventure stories. They work best as that. Arguably they were not considered the best literature for children when they appeared-it wasn't the Hardy Boys. I think the efforts to turn it into something like Taxi Driver or Basic Instinct is misguided and creatively perverse--it's as dumb as taking the Maltese Falcon and turning that into a children's story about a singing gumshoe and his pet bird who solve mysteries. There's no point making Sam Spade into a children's character. Even Alan Moore, who popularized this trend of adding gritty realism to the comic character--he said--it's meant for kids. It's supposed to accessible to kids-that doesn't mean adults can't enjoy it. But adding these unnecessary character elements to superheroes shows the loss of focus on the adventure side of things. It's not very imaginative. Agreed, and if graphic sex and violence is your thing, it should be relegated to newer characters with those elements baked into their tone. Retrofitting older characters to be foul-mouthed, alcoholic nymphomaniacs is just weird. You can always read the Boys for that kind of stuff. That's not what Im saying though if you followed the exchange between myself and Max
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 22, 2021 14:55:33 GMT 1
Agreed, and if graphic sex and violence is your thing, it should be relegated to newer characters with those elements baked into their tone. Retrofitting older characters to be foul-mouthed, alcoholic nymphomaniacs is just weird. You can always read the Boys for that kind of stuff. That's not what Im saying though if you followed the exchange between myself and Max I did not follow that exchange. I was agreeing with primemcgee and expanding on his reply. My opinions on the subject are my own and were not a direct response to your commentary - or anyone else's.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 22, 2021 17:24:21 GMT 1
No Batman Returns fans in the house? Lots of sexuality in that film. Catwoman even grabs Batman by the ******. And America loved it. Great point lol To quote critical commentary on Batman Returns... You never actually see Michael Keaton go downtown on Michelle Pfeiffer. As "aggressive" as it was, it was primarily just innuendo which is different than the literal depiction of a sex act.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 17:36:29 GMT 1
No Batman Returns fans in the house? Lots of sexuality in that film. Catwoman even grabs Batman by the ******. And America loved it. Great point lol What’s funny is that it was insanely controversial at the time. I mean, people were outraged. It was all over the news. Now people use it as an example of how to “appropriately” portray Catwoman’s sexuality without “crossing the line”. That’s… hilarious. If Batman Returns was the culmination or escalation of previous increasingly sexualized depictions of the character then isn’t it only natural for subsequent incarnations to continue to push that envelope?
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Post by AQUA KEN! on Jul 22, 2021 18:07:23 GMT 1
It is weird that violence is considered okay but anything sexual isn't.
Batman violently knocking out someone Teeth? Perfectly fine for our image!
Batman performing oral sex on his lover? That will ruin our perfectly clean image!
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Post by primemcgee on Jul 22, 2021 18:30:36 GMT 1
I don't think extreme violence belongs in it either.
The Killing Joke--even Moore says that was a mistake--and that was implied sexual violence.
I remember reading the Marvel comic where a character gets brainwashed and raped--Ms Marvel or something..and even then I was like "hmmm, there's something wrong with this."
Killing Gwen Stacy was also a mistake. That was very negative and pointless--and it was pointless. It did nothing constructive for the series.
But it's hard to control these things when they have to come up with a new story every week or month.
And originally Superman killed people and Batman had a gun and murders happened. Before the comics code--but that's why I say-it wasn't the Hardy boys. Some people said those early superheroes were bad for kids because they were more violent. They cleaned it up or I guess Captain Marvel was less violent? I never read it but since it was the most popular 1940s comic. Did Captain Marvel murder anyone? If he didn't then I assume he became the role model that DC followed. Marvel to a lesser extent since Captain America in the 50s was punching out Red Chinese.
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Post by maximura on Jul 22, 2021 18:44:31 GMT 1
It is weird that violence is considered okay but anything sexual isn't. Batman violently knocking out someone Teeth? Perfectly fine for our image! Batman performing oral sex on his lover? That will ruin our perfectly clean image! It's not that weird. Violence is the medium. To have conflict between heroes and villains, violence is required. As an inherent part of the core concept, the degree of it can change, but rarely it's presence. Sex can be a part of it, but isn't the central theme, so it needs a reason to be present, and a greater reason the more detailed the sex. Some adult humor or mild references are easy to explain as making it real. Watching two drawings go at it requires a bit more justification. When the property starts as not including anything like that, it's almost impossible to explain the need for as it carries a higher risk to children than having something like The Boys play out as adult the entire time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 18:48:51 GMT 1
It is weird that violence is considered okay but anything sexual isn't. Batman violently knocking out someone Teeth? Perfectly fine for our image! Batman performing oral sex on his lover? That will ruin our perfectly clean image! It's not that weird. Violence is the medium. To have conflict between heroes and villains, violence is required. As an inherent part of the core concept, the degree of it can change, but rarely it's presence. Sex can be a part of it, but isn't the central theme, so it needs a reason to be present, and a greater reason the more detailed the sex. Some adult humor or mild references are easy to explain as making it real. Watching two drawings go at it requires a bit more justification. When the property starts as not including anything like that, it's almost impossible to explain the need for as it carries a higher risk to children than having something like The Boys play out as adult the entire time. Conflict can be resolved with cunnilingus. I speak from experience!
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Post by maximura on Jul 22, 2021 18:56:31 GMT 1
It's not that weird. Violence is the medium. To have conflict between heroes and villains, violence is required. As an inherent part of the core concept, the degree of it can change, but rarely it's presence. Sex can be a part of it, but isn't the central theme, so it needs a reason to be present, and a greater reason the more detailed the sex. Some adult humor or mild references are easy to explain as making it real. Watching two drawings go at it requires a bit more justification. When the property starts as not including anything like that, it's almost impossible to explain the need for as it carries a higher risk to children than having something like The Boys play out as adult the entire time. Conflict can be resolved with cunnilingus. I speak from experience! Presumably, the conflict was resolved a moment prior to that or I'm pretty sure it's a criminal act.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2021 6:21:11 GMT 1
To quote critical commentary on Batman Returns... You never actually see Michael Keaton go downtown on Michelle Pfeiffer. As "aggressive" as it was, it was primarily just innuendo which is different than the literal depiction of a sex act. And most likely you wouldnt have seen the graphic, complete act in the Harley cartoon either. I mean, what mainstream cartoon or even fringe one actually shows that?
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 23, 2021 6:42:34 GMT 1
To quote critical commentary on Batman Returns... You never actually see Michael Keaton go downtown on Michelle Pfeiffer. As "aggressive" as it was, it was primarily just innuendo which is different than the literal depiction of a sex act. And most likely you wouldnt have seen the graphic, complete act in the Harley cartoon either. I mean, what mainstream cartoon or even fringe one actually shows that? These days, you never know.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 18:49:55 GMT 1
It is weird that violence is considered okay but anything sexual isn't. Batman violently knocking out someone Teeth? Perfectly fine for our image! Batman performing oral sex on his lover? That will ruin our perfectly clean image! This comment is even more apt now that The Suicide Squad is out. DC characters shooting people’s faces off is embraced but if anyone performed oral sex on a woman people would’ve been up in arms.
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Post by AQUA JAR!™ on Aug 19, 2021 19:03:25 GMT 1
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